I heard Vybes Cartel for the first time!!

[Bricktop]

Ernie Smith, Pluto Shervington, Third World, Morgan Heritage, LKJ, Buju, Barrington Levy, Peter Tosh, Capleton, a certain Bob Marley... want me to continue?

But none of these guys are "lyrical" in the sense we are speaking of.

[Peter R]

Me: "Kartel slack and really sing some things I don't rate , but he is one of the greatest lyricist in Jamaica's history. "

What am I to think when someone makes a statement like that? Bob Marley shadow write better "lyrics' than the crap I hear spewing from VK...so unuh explain what sense of lyrics unuh talking bout for my edification. thanks.

[Assasin]

wwwoooooowwwwwww.

"greatest" mi foot.

[Bricktop]

Me: "Kartel slack and really sing some things I don't rate , but he is one of the greatest lyricist in Jamaica's history. "

What am I to think when someone makes a statement like that? Bob Marley shadow write better "lyrics' than the crap I hear spewing from VK...so unuh explain what sense of lyrics unuh talking bout for my edification. thanks.

Bob Marley was in no way a great lyricist. You seem to be mixing up songwriter and lyricist the two are not mutually exclusive. Beenie Man is the undisputed King Of The Dancehall but is in no way a great lyricist.

[Peter R]

I actually know the difference between the two... and I say you MUST be joking to make a statement like that about Bob Marley. Someone other than Bob wrote the lyrics to many of the BMW hits? I did also include Tosh and Bunny Wailer as being good (if not great) lyricists who are better than VK and I know they also provided many of the lyrics of the Wailers songs...

So who wrote the lyrics if not one of those three, to songs like , Waiting in Vain, No woman no cry, I shot the sheriff, Three little birds, Judge Not, Buffalo Soldier, Stir it up to name a few. Lyrics of these songs are compelling, gripping and tell a story... anyhow, if Bob wasn't a great lyricist, who was/is? Vybz...?

[Bricktop]

I actually know the difference between the two... and I say you MUST be joking to make a statement like that about Bob Marley. Someone other than Bob wrote the lyrics to many of the BMW hits? I did also include Tosh and Bunny Wailer as being good (if not great) lyricists who are better than VK and I know they also provided many of the lyrics of the Wailers songs...

So who wrote the lyrics if not one of those three, to songs like , Waiting in Vain, No woman no cry, I shot the sheriff, Three little birds, Judge Not, Buffalo Soldier, Stir it up to name a few. Lyrics of these songs are compelling, gripping and tell a story... anyhow, if Bob wasn't a great lyricist, who was/is? Vybz...?

Writing songs and being a lyricist are not mutually exclusive. Bob et al were good songwriters not necessarily great lyricists. Bob Marley did not have great wordplay but his songs were well put together. Beenie Man is not a great lyricist but his execution is flawless.

[Peter R]

I didn't say they were... before we continue it appears to me that you an "Me" have ascribed your own definition to the word lyricist which the Oxford dictionary defines as the person who writes the words to a song...maybe you need to define what YOU mean by a "lyricist". For me I look at the power and effect of the words, the use of language, imagery created, poignancy..e.g." emancipate yourself from mental slavery"... BM did "not have great wordplay"?? I don't know what you mean by that.. If "Redemption Song" does not contain some of the most powerful lyrics written by a songwriter/lyricist then we will just agree to disagree...

I just saw the result of a BBC poll (2001) that ranked Bob as the 3rd best songwriter/lyricist of all time... so if I'm wrong is me and plenty other people wrong tuh... Vybz didn't make the list BTW.

[Bricktop]

I didn't say they were... before we continue it appears to me that you an "Me" have ascribed your own definition to the word lyricist which the Oxford dictionary defines as the person who writes the words to a song...maybe you need to define what YOU mean by a "lyricist". For me I look at the power and effect of the words, the use of language, imagery created, poignancy..e.g." emancipate yourself from mental slavery"... BM did "not have great wordplay"?? I don't know what you mean by that.. If "Redemption Song" does not contain some of the most powerful lyrics written by a songwriter/lyricist then we will just agree to disagree...

I just saw the result of a BBC poll (2001) that ranked Bob as the 3rd best songwriter/lyricist of all time... so if I'm wrong is me and plenty other people wrong tuh... Vybz didn't make the list BTW.

Take away the locks and ganja smoking and you would never have heard of Bob Marley. Not a prolific lyricist. Prolific songwriter. And unnuh a talk bout nursery rhyme? Bob had his fair share of nursery rhyme lyrics. Not to mention he became known internationally for a cover tune.

[Peter R]

I made that comment "greatest" tongue in cheek...Vybz is a dunce!

[Peter R]

How come people cannot answer a question... now Bob only famous because of his locks and ganja smoking...??? unuh wan rewrite history?? suh Bob marley was a fake?? Give me a break...Bob Marley was popular in JA (and getting international popularity) long before he grew locks...and those who nevah smoke weed inna JA in that industry probably were the minority.

And if it were not for Bob Marley and people like him, Vybz wouda deh a street a beg patty.. so nuh badda talk bout cover tune...

So WHAT DO YOU CALL A LYRICIST?? Define it! Indulge me because mi ignorant! I cannot agree with anything you say or concede anything if we are talking about two different things. ..so my original position remains the same until I hear what a "lyricist" is.

[Me]

Here the commedian. I listed a bag of songs. You can go look up the lyrics for them.

[Me]

Bricktop already tell you is about wordplay. You mention someone like Capleton for example with better lyrics. Capleton message great (sometimes), delivery always good, but the lyrics is often some basic thing that any Joe could write.

When Jamaican people and people all over the Caribbean respond to Kartel, it isn't usually a positive message, certainly isn't that his voice is great, it is a response to the lyrics the in the man song.

[Me]

This is just like the case of man getting offended by an article talking bout Mavado and Bob Marley when it was in no way saying that Mavado was in Marley's category.

[Peter R]

Why? post de lyrics!! If him so good print two verse right yah so!!

[Peter R]

Why? post de lyrics!! If him so good print two verse right yah so!! Mi muss guh look up a point you wan defend??!!?