Lawrence defends performance

[Karl]

RE: Lawrence defends performance

Rudi (11/13/2006)Again you have missed everything. I challenge you to name one project ONE that the government has been involved in that has come in within 10% of budget. You talk about facts save that for people succeptible to spinning. If you read Lawrence's defense it boils down to underestimating of costs and the timeliness of funding of payments. But guess what? all the contractors got paid, the same contractors who are essentially one and the same as Lawrence and friends, spin that. So guess who foots that bill: a country called Jamaica. The fact that cost overruns are almost a badge of honour with a government that invariably requires the Jamaican people to foot the bill for their corruption and or incompetence seems lost on you. Name one contractor or gorvernment official that has everpaid an economic price for the perpetual cost overruns. Let's have that FACT.

What fact have I missed - Name one contractor or gorvernment official that has everpaid an economic price for the perpetual cost overruns. Let's have that FACT?

...or, The fact that cost overruns are almost a badge of honour with a government that invariably requires the Jamaican people to foot the bill for their corruption and or incompetence seems lost on you?

Isn't what you just said, what I mentioned excepting that I pointed out to you that the Jamaican people - connections of government operatives, private sector firms, individuals - are all part and parcel of the corruption...

You are trying to not"blame government", which is an entity comprising PNP and JLP managers/heads of departments and those departmentsworkers- You are trying to blame the PNP?

I think you have failed to see the way in which 'connections' run the country. You have failed to see that, for example, it is more likely that a Contractor-General Christie hasfriends and or relatives in high places mis-managing and enjoying the fruits of corruption - friends and family giving to him/supporting him and or enjoying the fruits of corruption with him...in one way or another...as life goes on...than there being no connection with Christie, (...or you, or me for that matter)with not one person who has benefited from or is involved in 'the fruits of corruption'.

Not too dissimilar to the circulation of illegal money...illegally gotten money...because it is spent in the society benefitingeach and every member of society.

How do you get projects done in a Jamaica where everyone with the tools to do business - manufacturing, hospitality industry, the pharmacuetical trade,radio and other media houses, sports, distributive trade, government services - civil servants, quasi-governement services - theJDB and its successor, Bank of Jamaica, private financial service providers, etc., etc. are all connected...by/through a host of different ways - school/university, have professional and or vocational relations, played on the same sportsteam and or met opposingteams and made friends, are family related and or have business relations, etc., etc...depend on each other for'work' and support?

You get projects done by pretentions of tendering - and the final decision made on 'who knows who'. Let us face facts, if for example there are only 5 companies that can design,engineer, buildand re-surface roads, how do you share the 'road projects'? How long would it take for all the owners and shareholders...

...and even ifthe workers of those companies came from Mars...for them all to become well-known and become a part of the very small island of Jamaica's 'social/business circuit'? ...and, we know they are all born and bred in Jamaica or at least 99.99999999% of them...How long would it take before they are 'connected'? How long would it take before the givers of the 'road work' contracts and these providers of the sevice of building, etc...of roads become connected? How long would it take before these b

[Assasin]

RE: Lawrence defends performance

with people like you excusing everything people in the PNP do there will be no better government and accountability in Ja.

[Karl]

RE: Lawrence defends performance

Assasin (11/14/2006)with people like you excusing everything people in the PNP do there will be no better government and accountability in Ja.

I am excusing no one! I am calling the shots in what I think is a fair manner. Picking out a name...an entity like you and others are doing with the PNP, is in my mind a 'cop out'. Cowardice! A failure to stand for real change!

Why?

I think you and others like you take a cop out because it is easy to turn off the brain and not to face the reality of how pervasive the corruption is in the society. ...and, running away from the part you and those others and or friends, relatives acquaintances have played in helping the corruption to become embedded in every area of the society. It is easier to point blame on a person, set of persons, an entity, number of entities that we can claim to have had no conncecton with...rather than face ourselves and step right into acceptance of some blame and aportioning some blame to thosepersons, entities we hold dear.

It is the the typical game sport - e.g. football - blame game. Goalkeeper John let in the goal - im shudda save hit! No blame tous - outplayers!No we did not fail to score more goals! Not our fault! Not one of us lost the ball! No sir, not our fault!Just that damn, John!

Christie put out his facts! Do you know the truth of Christie's facts? Wise me up?!

Lawrence put outhis facts! Do you know the truth of his facts? Wise me up?!

...or, is it like the out footballers...you blame who it is easiest or fashionable to blame? ...and, very likely in this Whitehouse case not having any sensible sustainable basis to pick either Christie or Lawrence as the 'truth teller'?

Present your facts? Wise me up?

[Assasin]

RE: Lawrence defends performance

Karl even before Christie there were so many red flags on this project.

One is 40 billion over run

two is the companies that were employed on this project are owned by Vin Lawerence, Alton Stewart, and Butch Stewart. All having oversight on the project and there were no bids allow which is not what government rules ask for.

Until now the UDC can't provide all the documents asked for and the present head say she don't know where they are.

Vin Lawerence was in charge of the project so he had oversight responsiblity and he did a damn poor job so what are we suppose to do, accept his exuses?

Those are just the facts with or without Mr. Christie and nobody can say otherwise.

[Karl]

RE: Lawrence defends performance

Assasin (11/14/2006)Karl even before Christie there were so many red flags on this project.

One is 40 billion over run

two is the companies that were employed on this project are owned by Vin Lawerence, Alton Stewart, and Butch Stewart. All having oversight on the project and there were no bids allow which is not what government rules ask for.

Until now the UDC can't provide all the documents asked for and the present head say she don't know where they are.

Vin Lawerence was in charge of the project so he had oversight responsiblity and he did a damn poor job so what are we suppose to do, accept his exuses?

Those are just the facts with or without Mr. Christie and nobody can say otherwise.

Let us say you are correct - Ofcourse we cannot absolve Vin Lawrence!

The first question is because Lawrence has presided over a project that has had massive cost over-runs, it means Christie must be given a free pass to present any type of report he wishes?

In my mind you have the matterof Lawrence's culpability on the massive cost over-runsas one issue; the culpability of any others whohave a part in that massive cost over-run as another issue; and, the matter of whether or not the Contractor-General did efficient, honest work or hedid inefficient, dishonest work being yet another issue.

Then, ofcourse, if the work the Contractor General and his office didis found to be inefficient and dishonest, what were the motives?We are talking of the possibility of corruption here! ...and, btw - was not corruption the theme?

The Contractor-General is a powerful man and whether or not VinLawrence is true of all the Contractor Generalsays......the Contractor General's manner of carrying out his functions, if his motives are other than an honest efficient audit has bearings on how hecan corruptly ruin others....bring down governments...put people in jail. The Contractor General is no different from Vin Lawrence both men areexpected (Vin is still expected in his appearances before Government authorised bodies...including the office of the Contractor General) to be in actions devoid of corrupt practises. They are expected...neither at a lower standard than the other...to give honest efficient labour - NO CORRUPTION!

[Assasin]

RE: Lawrence defends performance

It is not a matter of say "let's say I am correct". Those are just the facts. I don't care about the politics, you and others can't deny the points I made, can you?

It is upon Vin Lawerence to prove and show what he did and didn't do. This is not about Mr.Christie as you are trying to make it. He isthe Contrator General and he runs audits and make decisions based on the facts presented to him.

What Vin Lawerence can't say is he did a great job.

[Karl]

RE: Lawrence defends performance

Assasin (11/14/2006) He isthe Contrator General and he runs audits and make decisions based on the facts presented to him.

You are so right on how it should be done! He certainly should not make decisions and give reports on anything other than the facts...the true facts!No lies! No half-truths! No corruption!

Let us hope his facts...arethe true facts!

I would love to know if they are?

[Assasin]

RE: Lawrence defends performance

If you look at the project through a fair mind you will see that there were too many red flags as to how it was run but you choose to question Christie Character.

He is not the only one who did investigation into this project and see that something is wrong.

It nuh matter as you see no evil and hear no evil.