World Bank grants big loan for debt control

[Assasin]

"Neither the PNP nor the JLP has policies or politicians in charge who will significantly change the country's fortunes."

Well the least we can do is be honest and give a little credit where it is due.

There may not be the kind of improvement that we want but there is a big difference at paying at 3% and 12% and when you have "financial experts" who insist it is impossible for years and it is not, it is a cause for celebration for some.

Audley Shaw was made out to be an idiot. Despite the fact that he has big ego, he was right on this one and this is coming through at a time when Jamaica need it MORE than ever when you take in consideration how the money market(the only other source) has dried up.

[Don1]

Last I checked you weren't the only Jamaican suh what you care about nuh really relevant don't it? Strange ... unuh sit back and allow incompetence fi 18 years when things were good. But unuh want everything fixed with the snap of a finger when there is a global crisis? Stop giving the impression that yuh nuh have nuh sense Don1.



The fact is Real Business is a popular program. Wow is celebration or an emphasis of surprise? Omar, who many regard as the best finance minister made it clear that he knew what he was talking about, and it was inexperience by Shaw to anticipate getting that much money. Wait ... aren't you the one that made it clear that yuh nuh need fi read the newspapers or listen to the radio to know whats happening? Suh once again yuh arguing from a point of ignorance!

I have no problem if you like to follow popular shows and track the back and forth positions of the PNP and JLP spin doctors.... clearly it keeps you occupied.

That's your choice... and if I'm ignorant of the spin... it's because I find it non productive. I don't need it to form opinions on national affairs. I need facts to form an opinion... not spending time tracking (and adopting) the opinion of others .... especially tracking the opinions of an opposition party.

I believe it's past time JLP types get over this obsession with PNP failures.... and stop using it a crutch to excuse their own shortcomings. You reflect that approach which is common in the present government.... I believe that approach (even if it reflects truth to an extent about PNP failures) is counterproductive and does nothing to move us forward.

Then again... neither the JLP nor the PNP has what it takes to do the job. Jamaica's continued deterioration just proves my point... despite all the (WOW!) soft loans.

[Don1]

"Neither the PNP nor the JLP has policies or politicians in charge who will significantly change the country's fortunes."

Well the least we can do is be honest and give a little credit where it is due.

There may not be the kind of improvement that we want but there is a big difference at paying at 3% and 12% and when you have "financial experts" who insist it is impossible for years and it is not, it is a cause for celebration for some.

Audley Shaw was made out to be an idiot. Despite the fact that he has big ego, he was right on this one and this is coming through at a time when Jamaica need it MORE than ever when you take in consideration how the money market(the only other source) has dried up.

Thank God for Shaw and cheap loans!


Salvation is nigh!

[Assasin]

"Thank God for Shaw and cheap loans!


Salvation is nigh!"


sound like you a celebrate to me.

How is it different from the Petro Caribe agreement you celebrate and often talk about?

[Don1]

UNFORTUNATELY it will not be that easy to get over 18 years of POOR management that trickled down from government and RAMPANT corruption

Very true! Agree with you 1000%!!!



If only this government would START down that road to get over those lost years.


Instead we see continued corruption, accelerated crime, deepening despair and increased economic dislocation.


The Drivah is clearly lost and we continue to head for the precipice.





Over to you for the excuses...

[Don1]

"Thank God for Shaw and cheap loans!


Salvation is nigh!"


sound like you a celebrate to me.

How is it different from the Petro Caribe agreement you celebrate and often talk about?

Apples and oranges my friend.



I point out that the JLP was smart (self preservation I guess) to maintain good relations with Venezuela after they foolishly were wildly opposed to Chavez's plans.


I point out that the scale of Petro Caribe (have you ever read the policy document?) brings immediate, continuing and vast relief to the country's finances... way beyond the multi-lateral agreements currently being trumpeted. Petro Caribe also involves a separate US$500m expansion of the refinery and investment in Petcom... among other benefits... were you aware?



I point out my belief that even this 1% money over 25 or so years... will probably be largely written off by Venezuela... or part payment made in kind... providing further relief to the country.


Without Petro Caribe, inflation would be much higher, the currency would probably be devalued with a rate over JA$100-US$1 and foreign reserves would be severely depleted.


Do you understand the significance? I guess not.

[Assasin]

so wait

the Multilateral agreement don't stop devaluation and reduce the demand for other foriegn dollars?

don't access to this foreign dollar easy the pressure off government going to the local financial sector and make more money availbale to local businesses.

With this money the government can plan and beat inflation as they can buy in advance?

The money we got last week has a 30 year 3% repayment and a five year grace period.


"will probably be largely written off by Venezuela" You are speculating here. Chavez will not be in power forever and nobody know if it is going to be written off. It has the same chance of the world bank writing it off as they have done in the pass.

Why is it you think China now is investing heavily in the IDB?

If we had this agreement with these bank before Jamaica would have been in a better place than it is today.

Come better than that Don1.

[Don1]

Once again, a position of one fool leading many. But a you name Mosiah!

I guess everyone who is not a JLP cheerleader is a fool.


Such are the ways of sycophancy.

[Don1]

so wait

the Multilateral agreement don't stop devaluation and reduce the demand for other foriegn dollars?

don't access to this foreign dollar easy the pressure off government going to the local financial sector and make more money availbale to local businesses.

With this money the government can plan and beat inflation as they can buy in advance?

The money we got last week has a 30 year 3% repayment and a five year grace period.

"will probably be largely written off by Venezuela" You are speculating here. Chavez will not be in power forever and nobody know if it is going to be written off. It has the same chance of the world bank writing it off as they have done in the pass.

Why is it you think China now is investing heavily in the IDB?

If we had this agreement with these bank before Jamaica would have been in a better place than it is today.

Have you read the Petro Caribe policy document? Are you aware of its provisions? Do you even care about its provisions? Do you know how to analyse the relative economic impact of differing policies?



If I had to guess... through reviewing your points... the answer is no in every case.

[Don1]

a see that is all you can say. it is ok when done by Chavez but not by the international organizations?

I never said I was opposed to your dear loans... did I? I am not opposed.



I just don't see much reason to trumpet them.... but knock yourself out!

[Assasin]

I have read the draft not the whole agreement but whatever it is there are many of the same economic results because primarily it is low income loans provided to help stabilize our economy.

The goverment need to take advantage of all of these oppurtunities and grow production, productivity, and make themselves and the country less reliant upon outside help. As I say this is just step one that give them a breather, let me see if they take advantage.

I also assume you haven't read the agreement by the multilaterials.

[Lazie]

I have no problem if you like to follow popular shows and track the back and forth positions of the PNP and JLP spin doctors.... clearly it keeps you occupied.

That's your choice... and if I'm ignorant of the spin... it's because I find it non productive. I don't need it to form opinions on national affairs. I need facts to form an opinion... not spending time tracking (and adopting) the opinion of others .... especially tracking the opinions of an opposition party.

I believe it's past time JLP types get over this obsession with PNP failures.... and stop using it a crutch to excuse their own shortcomings. You reflect that approach which is common in the present government.... I believe that approach (even if it reflects truth to an extent about PNP failures) is counterproductive and does nothing to move us forward.

Then again... neither the JLP nor the PNP has what it takes to do the job. Jamaica's continued deterioration just proves my point... despite all the (WOW!) soft loans.

... maybe thats why yuh keep arguing from a point of ignorance. At times I wonder if you're Ralston Hyman. If the economy wasn't growing in good times, what should they be doing now there is credit crisis?

Maybe yuh need to stop fooling yuhself and yuh groupies pon the forum and realise that you ain't Mr. Know it All.

[Lazie]

I guess everyone who is not a JLP cheerleader is a fool.


Such are the ways of sycophancy.

Actually no ... just the ones that interpreted "Wow!!" to be the celebration of some victory.

[Assasin]

you a real joker to rhatid.

should it not be talked about? Who is knocking themselves out.

All I said it was good first step by the government to try and LOWER OUR DEBT in a time when we need it more than ever.

And I did say the caribe agreement was good for Jamaica as well.

[Don1]

I have read the draft not the whole agreement but whatever it is there are many of the same economic results because primarily it is low income loans provided to help stabilize our economy.

The goverment need to take advantage of all of these oppurtunities and grow production, productivity, and make themselves and the country less reliant upon outside help. As I say this is just step one that give them a breather, let me see if they take advantage.

I also assume you haven't read the agreement by the multilaterials.

It is NOT just low interest loans. The Petro Caribe fund generates about US$400-US$600m available to the government EVERY year.
As I said it also encompasses investment in our energy sector.


The Petrojam refinery is to updated and expanded costing about US$500m+.

This will allow refining of much cheaper heavy crude oil and also export of finished products because the capacity will be way beyond local demand... earning FX. Petcom is to be recapitalized and expanded. There is also investment in alternatives.


Far more than just cheap loans... and a significant boost to the economy. The JLP is wise to continue this policy that they blasted while in opposition.



This is not a cheap loan policy... it's an ENERGY SECURITY policy. Don't mistake the two.