Exile - Discussion: The Manley Years

[MdmeX]

Funny thing is that people who are not US residents or citizens seem to come here and get FREE HEALTHCARE

Mi know several people who benefit

[Assasin]

know a few too.

[Don1]

i see it differently...btw yuh seriously include canada?

anyway, when the people who encouraged a man to all out capitalist just because a man drive a "big car"...give up dem lada.....i tend not to be as matter of fact about it

OK.. you have a different perspective.

I just know that all leadership elites tend to have very comfortable to extravagant lifestyles... regardless of the system. Communists/Socialists are no different in this regard from capitalist leaders.



C'est la vie.

[Don1]

Don1 I expect better from you. While your argument maybe true but this one source will prove everything?

Cuba has a good healthcare system but it is not as modern as many other

countries.

You perhaps want me to post 100 sources?


All one has to do is look at health statistics.... that's how reasonable people can make an assessment of a health system.... without uninformed posturing.



Cuba's stats are excellent..... end of story.

[Peter R]

And guess what? Castro gave Manning his surgery as a Christmas gift...no charge!

[Assasin]

Well oftentimes I see you chastise people for one or two sources so I find it strange how you just say "see it yah".

Well yes based on may sources it is very good.

[Don1]

Well oftentimes I see you chastise people for one or two sources so I find it strange how you just say "see it yah".

Well yes based on may sources it is very good.

Never said "see it yah" ... I referred Historian to a site where there was objective statistical data on the outcomes of Cuba's health programs.


The key here is hard data... not someone's opinion based on a "feeling".


One should not need more than 1 data source.... unless one doesn't believe the basic data.

[Rudi]

Explain this, Rudi, how can a poor Third World country like Jamaica support the practice of free education and free health care? And for your information, the Cuban health care culture, with its outdated technology and often-questioned medical approach and results, is vastly overrated! Sure, it is commendable that ordinary Cubans have access to free health care facilities, but the standards are no way comparable with those of the so-called developed world!

Enough of this Cuba-biased sentimentality! (And yes, I read the public relations piece from the Cuban embassy that was published in our local newspapers recently.)

With respect, I think it is your bias that is showing. The Cuban health care system with it's out-dated technology (you conveniently neglect the embargo) has been able to produce an infant mortality rate better than the US. The more accurate comparison is with the Cuban health care system/educational system with other Poor Third World countries like Jamaica not the developed countries. FYI some of the wealthy (or formally wealthy) in places like the Bahamas (not a communist bastion) regularly go to cuba for operations because of the quality and cost combination. You should ask the JLP how can Jamaica afford free health care/education, they proposed it. My point was their proposals which mirrored the 70's PNP proposals were not met with any communist angst. Maybe just maybe the problems had a lot to do with the reactionary reactions to what has proven to be the mild reforms proposed by Manley. Wait till Tufton start to push cooperatives whay unuh going do then. And it is coming.

[Lazie]

With respect, I think it is your bias that is showing. The Cuban health care system with it's out-dated technology (you conveniently neglect the embargo) has been able to produce an infant mortality rate better than the US. The more accurate comparison is with the Cuban health care system/educational system with other Poor Third World countries like Jamaica not the developed countries. FYI some of the wealthy (or formally wealthy) in places like the Bahamas (not a communist bastion) regularly go to cuba for operations because of the quality and cost combination. You should ask the JLP how can Jamaica afford free health care/education, they proposed it. My point was their proposals which mirrored the 70's PNP proposals were not met with any communist angst. Maybe just maybe the problems had a lot to do with the reactionary reactions to what has proven to be the mild reforms proposed by Manley. Wait till Tufton start to push cooperatives whay unuh going do then. And it is coming.

Strange, yet you claim Historian's bias is showing? Yuh cyaan serious.

[Rudi]

Huh? Please explain? Even Bruce Golding has praised Cuba's accomplishments and called for an end to the embargo. Didn't you get the New and different memo? Let me break it down for you: if Manley was so bad how come the current JLP has adopted so many of his policies? On a strictly policy basis as opposed to rhetoric they are now to the left of the PNP. Are they communists I wonder? should we overthow or underthrow them? Where is exodus to Miami?

[Lazie]

Huh? Please explain? Even Bruce Golding has praised Cuba's accomplishments and called for an end to the embargo. Didn't you get the New and different memo? Let me break it down for you: if Manley was so bad how come the current JLP has adopted so many of his policies? On a strictly policy basis as opposed to rhetoric they are now to the left of the PNP. Are they communists I wonder? should we overthow or underthrow them? Where is exodus to Miami?

Bout 3 days now yuh asking the same silly question. Okay ... Both you and I like the 2009 Benz.

You:

1. Have a good downpayment
2. Have good credit.
3. Earns enough money to cover the monthly payments
4. Have no problem taking care of the car.
5. etc.

Me:

1. Affi borrow a money from Sass fi mek the downpayment
2. The only credit I have is my credit union account with a smalls to keep the account active.
3. The monthly payment is more than my weekly wages but tell the salesman say the payment is monkey money
4. Since my pay cannot cover the payment, obviously I cannot take care of the car.

Which of the 2 is more irresponsible? No which of the 2 is more careless?

The 2 times Manley got elected he got a growing economy. What the hell did he do with it? Unuh can gwaan get caught up in unuh anancy stories bout Manley.

[Karl]

I admire you strength of conviction.

As you speak of the bauxite levy?
Do we not still have a bauxite levy?

If you answer, yes...you are not suggesting it was a waste? ...and we would now be better off without it?

The matters of redistribution of wealth is not about taking from...but rather more of allowing 'outsiders to sit at the table' with equal access to opportunities and thus ability to 'make own way'. Before Michael Manley precious few were allowed to even 'sit below the table' to gather 'the scraps' that fell.

I grew up in a time when blacks were not allowed certain jobs and or put in certain positions of authority. In fact, the times were such that most of the few who 'made some progress' were quickly forgetful where they came from and became willing puppets of of the upper classes and were often more cruel...and uncaringly kept their former friends and acquaintances from access to opportunies for advancement.

The damage runs deep. Many of us have older 'black as the ace of spades' relatives who in action and manner 'cuss blacks'. That attitude was intrinsically bound up with attitudes of those socially better off than the vast majority...and is directly related to lack of opportunities before the coming of Manley. For example, access to credit was just about impossible to obtain.

Historian: Check backwards two or three generations within your own family.

[Muadib]

Was there a struggle for equal rights and Justice in America ??

What the hell does struggle for equal rights and justice have to do with developing the ability for a country to take care of its citizens ???

What is the point of struggling for equal rights and justice only to have these people run to American to become 'second class' citizens ?

Even at 'second class' The average black man in Jamaica has less rights protection than his counterpart in America... ain't that a b1tch...

Unnuh mad as chad.

[Muadib]

What is the Free education and healthcare that you are talking about ?

Is there such a thing ?

Teachers and Doctor work for free ?.. Medicine and injection and school book fall from the sky ? nuh cost nutting ?

[Muadib]

I think we are way past being allowed to sit at the table (that is what occurred in America).. dem all reach inna di kitchen seh dem a chef and ah poison di whole ah wi.. chairs and table dem a bruk down suh if di food nuh kill yuh you probably bruk yuh neck..