The big lie, the best prime minister, 'let them eat cake'..

[Karl]

Snicker - maybe it was the "5 flights a day to Miami"

I think it may have been last year or the year before when I told Maudib - that openning of the eyes of the ordinary Jamaican to the possibilities and the to this day exodus...mass migration...is a big part of what is saving the country from a violent upheaval! Facts are facts!

...If I remember I said something like: Manley's remarks on "five flight a day" had unintended results...but the results had imbedded, good!

Sure the capital that left - money, we would have liked to remain...and some of the human capital - those who were employers and managed well...managed well...and teachers, nurses, doctors, etc. and intellectuals and other trained persons, etc. were missed...but even as our University, the Colleges and the High Schools poured thousands and thousands out there doors each year...but for the relief provided by migration our unempolyment figures and underemployment figures would approach levels where by this time 'man would be eating man' in greater numbers than the current crime wave is showing!

[Baddaz]

exile... i am 100% in agreement with you... especially, We must be careful of historians who would care to rewrite our past.

[Baddaz]

Historian: The Manley years lead to a cataclysmic change from the vast majority being confined to little hope of advancement in their lot to a galvanising of that vast majority towards being whatever was desired. That self-belief lives on today! There is no turning back from the empower of the people that Manley brought.

true words...

[Baddaz]

yuh figget fi add, wid all a de money... some peeple just blind to reality... yuh will neva change dem belief...

[Historian]

Now I am Amazed!

...If I remember I said something like: Manley's remarks on "five flight a day" had unintended results...but the results had imbedded, good!

Sure the capital that left - money, we would have liked to remain...and some of the human capital - those who were employers and managed well...managed well...and teachers, nurses, doctors, etc. and intellectuals and other trained persons, etc. were missed...but even as our University, the Colleges and the High Schools poured thousands and thousands out there doors each year...but for the relief provided by migration our unempolyment figures and underemployment figures would approach levels where by this time 'man would be eating man' in greater numbers than the current crime wave is showing!

This comment is a joke, right? Please say it is, Karl. In your view, the highly qualified Jamaicans, who you alluded to in your response above, and who are the most likely to be accepted abroad in any major position that is available, would be "eating man" if their efforts had been rejected??!

Do you realize that, in a few sentences, you have revised the whole notion of economic and social growth and prosperity in Third World (and other) nations? When will you begin to realize that a huge part of Jamaica's problem is the migration of the most skilled members of the society?

Yes, migration can, and does, provide relief, but not when it's a migration of the best that the country has to offer!! You identified the migration of "our University, the Colleges and the High Schools" which, as you stated above, "poured thousands and thousands out there doors each year."

Boss, whether you and others like Baddaz realize it, this migration of our graduates is what has been happening!! We're not talking here about migration of, say, workers to pick apples and oranges in the huge farms of North America! Any hardworking, strong person can do that! We're talking about ACCEPTANCE in the developed world of our brightest and best!! After the initial application has been pored over and the interview completed, it's only the very best that will be selected!!

This is the dilemma of Third World countries, yet you in your naivette praise a failed administration for encouraging this??

Trust me, it's ridiculous conclusions like this why I sometimes abandon message boards!! People seem to like to hit the keys before they think!

yuh figget fi add, wid all a de money... some peeple just blind to reality... yuh will neva change dem belief...

So, my contributions here are blinded by my belief? There is a thing called reaching conclusions based on the empirical stuff (data, whatever) that's presented. I strongly suggest now that you present a strong case to refute all that I have said!

"Rewriting history" is a cliche that does not impress me! After all, I deal with cliches all day long!

[Muadib]

Are you nuts ?

Brain drain was good for Jamaica because it prevented cannibalism and crime ?

LOL !! WHOOEE ! WHOEEEEEE !!

Manley mad unnuh to ************************..

[Karl]

This comment is a joke, right? Please say it is, Karl. In your view, the highly qualified Jamaicans, who you alluded to in your response above, and who are the most likely to be accepted abroad in any major position that is available, would be "eating man" if their efforts had been rejected??!

Do you realize that, in a few sentences, you have revised the whole notion of economic and social growth and prosperity in Third World (and other) nations? When will you begin to realize that a huge part of Jamaica's problem is the migration of the most skilled members of the society?

Yes, migration can, and does, provide relief, but not when it's a migration of the best that the country has to offer!! You identified the migration of "our University, the Colleges and the High Schools" which, as you stated above, "poured thousands and thousands out there doors each year."

Boss, whether you and others like Baddaz realize it, this migration of our graduates is what has been happening!! We're not talking here about migration of, say, workers to pick apples and oranges in the huge farms of North America! Any hardworking, strong person can do that! We're talking about ACCEPTANCE in the developed world of our brightest and best!! After the initial application has been pored over and the interview completed, it's only the very best that will be selected!!

This is the dilemma of Third World countries, yet you in your naivette praise a failed administration for encouraging this??

Trust me, it's ridiculous conclusions like this why I sometimes abandon message boards!! People seem to like to hit the keys before they think!



So, my contributions here are blinded by my belief? There is a thing called reaching conclusions based on the empirical stuff (data, whatever) that's presented. I strongly suggest now that you present a strong case to refute all that I have said!

"Rewriting history" is a cliche that does not impress me! After all, I deal with cliches all day long!

It is simple really - You think that, generally speaking there is brightest and best. I think we are all brightest and best/we all have the same abilities to be what you see as brightest and best.

Yours is a position gained from an environment in which you were brought up....i.e. one where it is honestly believed that 'by and large' those who went to our secondary schools were brightest and best...not those who were born into circumstances where their parents caused more attention being paid to 'learning' (learning comes not out of books only)...but for this purpose we'll use that 'books thing'...and where circumstances allowed for greater exposure at an earlier ages...therefore 'more advanced' to/prepared to sit and 'pass' common entrance or whatever it is now called than those who were not given same opportunities and exposure.

My position is, generally speaking, we all have the same ability to be best! Just some had opportunities and some did not. So if 50% of those who had the opportunities left...then whatever that number...double or tripple or more...of those numbers are there to step right into their shoes! Hey...we are all no better, no more gifted..no more with the ability...than each other. Unforutnately some got the opportunity and some just did not!

I do not think we missed a beat because of people leaving...there were other reasons why 'behavioural mores' fell and changed...and 'the many left behind' have gone down this current path!

The idea of some being best and others not...is an elitist attitude. The 'brains' we lost were in the 99.9999999999+% dime a dozen! The Einsteins are few and far between.

...the pick apples when they 'run off'...become doctors - medical and other types - teachers, attorneys, whatever they put their minds to...

...proving they had it in them to be...while they were at home but for the opportunities!

[Karl]

Are you nuts ?

Brain drain was good for Jamaica because it prevented cannibalism and crime ?

LOL !! WHOOEE ! WHOEEEEEE !!

Manley mad unnuh to ************************..

Which brain drain?
If all the brains have left...wherefore the current lot of business people, teachers, doctors, nurses, etc?

[Karl]

Are you nuts ?

Brain drain was good for Jamaica because it prevented cannibalism and crime ?

LOL !! WHOOEE ! WHOEEEEEE !!

Manley mad unnuh to ************************..

Just a lot of deluded people who left had selves thinking they were the alpha and omega of 'Jamaica brains'! A nonsense set of tripe flaunted via the media that the gullible swallowed!

...so the brains left...and only the idiots were left?

mmmmm?
Were you one of those @#$%$#@ left? ...your parents and their friends and acquaintances?
Just asking!

[Muadib]

The fact that you equate 'Brain Drain' to 'All di Brain leak out' ironically bolsters your argument.. is not all di Brain did leave guh farin.. nuff a did dunce did leave tuh...

[Muadib]

I am not sure what you are asking me.

Did you mistype ?

[Karl]

The fact that you equate 'Brain Drain' to 'All di Brain leak out' ironically bolsters your argument.. is not all di Brain did leave guh farin.. nuff a did dunce did leave tuh...

Isn't it not conjecture on where we would have been if no one had left and 'things' continued as they were... Where would the country be?

[Muadib]

hmmm... where would the country be if they were able to harness the brains of those trained locally and overseas ?

Umm.. better off ?

But please.. give us an insight into your bizarro world.. what would happen in your world ?

[Karl]

hmmm... where would the country be if they were able to harness the brains of those trained locally and overseas ?

Umm.. better off ?

But please.. give us an insight into your bizarro world.. what would happen in your world ?

We are, where we are!
Those who left found themselves in the place they where because they were failures! Whatever it was that they should have done to create the environment where there would have not been the conditions for a need of a Michael Manley or for the people to 'intrude'...my God, 'intrude'...pity them and their shallow brains...for the vast majority to join in...now that should be where their heads should have been - vast majority to join in! ...seeing that to make peaceful...to themselves...transitioning of the society where the greatest numbers enjoyed 'the greatest of standards of living'...and all were being moved towards 'better and better'...that is where their shallow brains should have been!

Instead they failed to provide for the vast majority...and thus incidently selves...their punny brains failed!

Brain drain?
Forget about it!