The argument being promoted by Lou Dobbs of CNN fame on benefits or lack thereof which immigrants

[Karl]

The argument being promoted by Lou Dobbs of CNN fame on benefits or lack thereof which immigrants bring to the US economy is one-sided and I think deliberately shaped to mislead.

You always hear references being made to immigrants...particular illegal/undocumented immigrants costing the tax payers money.You never hear anything about the many ways immigrants pay taxes - through sales taxes and the very many other forms of taxes they pay as they go about their everyday life. It is always they are taking advantage of the social services offered and the promotion of being a drain on the economy.

I have always wondered what is the sum of the taxes the pay outside of sate and federal income taxes?

I also wonder what %age of the car market - purchasing of new and used cars, contributions to purchases of petrol, and purchases of goods and services from suppliers/retailer and wholesales in the automobile industry?...the housing market? ...food & clothing? ...telecommunications market?

What value is placed on their services as labourers and what

%age increase in prices wouldoccur if their input as labourers was removed?

How many jobs would disappear if that so-called 12,000,000 consumers were removed? etc? etc?

[Peter R]

RE: The argument being promoted by Lou Dobbs of CNN fame on benefits or lack thereof which immigrants

Karl,

They also do not factor into the equation that an immigrant is in a sense a "finished product" in many instances... and has cost the host country ABSOLUTELY NOTHING before he or she becomes a tax paying resident. I'm thinking of folks who immigrate with their qualifications, i.e. having completed High School and in many cases tertiary level education of some sort.

I've seen figures that suggest it cost the US/Canadian taxpayers upwards of $200K to educate a child to age 18. Host countries that receive educated immigrants are being subsidised by poor countries like Jamaica.

pr

[Islandman]

RE: The argument being promoted by Lou Dobbs of CNN fame on benefits or lack thereof which immigrants

Yes, but what Dobbsargues against (publicly at least) isILLEGAL immigration. There are not many tertiary-educated illegal immigrants.

Not to say that Karls argument is not valid, the illegal immigrants do spend money and hence pay some taxes, but as to wether this offsets the public services they use is less certain.

As for my view, there is definately a need for a guest worker program in the US for these workers as the demand for thier services is definately there, but for a country with as many enemies as the US to have a virtually unprotected Southern border is suicidal.

[Karl]

RE: The argument being promoted by Lou Dobbs of CNN fame on benefits or lack thereof which immigrants

Islandman (11/8/2006)Yes, but what Dobbsargues against (publicly at least) isILLEGAL immigration. There are not many tertiary-educated illegal immigrants.

Not to say that Karls argument is not valid, the illegal immigrants do spend money and hence pay some taxes, but as to wether this offsets the public services they use is less certain.

As for my view, there is definately a need for a guest worker program in the US for these workers as the demand for thier services is definately there, but for a country with as many enemies as the US to have a virtually unprotected Southern border is suicidal.

It is noticeable how you argue on the "payment of tax vs use ofpublic services issue" fits right instep with Dobb's argument. Do not let him give you a half-truth?

The question of who among us pay all taxes and the matter of the value of the immigrants labour is totally ignored.

Just one example - For a fact, I know that prices of houses in Florida would rise due to higher cost of labour - i.e. slower speed with which American workers carry out the jobs when compared to the South American and European immigrants -(in the housing manafacturing sector Jamaicans I am sorry to say charge higher rates and take 'yeeeeeeeeaaaaars' longer to complete jobs) - and direct cost for doing the sametask.

I would think that the immigrantsdirectly influence the cost...keep costs down...we current pay for most of the everydaygoods and services the average American uses.

I say the value of the immigrant labour isignored because Lou Dobbs presents an argument that includes no stats and or figures on that value. That type of presentation is usually the perview of lying politicians...the aim is personal agenda based on deception. Half of the truth is a damn lie!

[Islandman]

RE: The argument being promoted by Lou Dobbs of CNN fame on benefits or lack thereof which immigrants

Agreed, everyonebenefits fromthe cost and quality of thier labor. My observations are similar to yours. But the larger question is how should the problem be dealt with? Isn't the "guest worker program" idea of formalising the process for immigrants who want to come to the US to work is one worth exploring, so they don't have to be sneaking across the border while the Minutemen and other bounty hunters try to capture them and take them in like common criminals?

[Karl]

RE: The argument being promoted by Lou Dobbs of CNN fame on benefits or lack thereof which immigrants

Islandman (11/9/2006)Agreed, everyonebenefits fromthe cost and quality of thier labor. My observations are similar to yours. But the larger question is how should the problem be dealt with? Isn't the "guest worker program" idea of formalising the process for immigrants who want to come to the US to work is one worth exploring, so they don't have to be sneaking across the border while the Minutemen and other bounty hunters try to capture them and take them in like common criminals?

Yes! ...and, fast track legalising those already in the country and contributing!