Viewpoint: Is Barack Obama black?

[Don1]

Suh yuh a seh ebry badi black cause wi ave more power?
...but mi nuh like di dog ha-nO-la-gi?

Black is not a race. There are people who are dark skinned but are anthropologically typed as Caucasian.. eg some North Indian peoples

Racial typing is a modern idea and it's been developed by people who largely want to advance white supremacy.

I used dogs n the analogy but if you prefer I could use chimpanzees.. since genetically there is less than a 1% difference between humans and chimps.... and I can think of some humans where there is no difference.

[Gamma]

in fact the skeltal structure of people from india is more like that of the caucasian than any other ....

once when i was submitting an application i did not check anything for race....the attendant told me that i had to (for census purposes|) so i told her to fill it in i was right there and she could see me ...she said no...i had to do it. when i asked her why she said that it was for me to fill out as it was what i considered myself....i put "white" and she refused to accept it!!!!

[Don1]

in fact the skeltal structure of people from india is more like that of the caucasian than any other ....

once when i was submitting an application i did not check anything for race....the attendant told me that i had to (for census purposes|) so i told her to fill it in i was right there and she could see me ...she said no...i had to do it. when i asked her why she said that it was for me to fill out as it was what i considered myself....i put "white" and she refused to accept it!!!!

social climber?

[Karl]

Black is not a race. There are people who are dark skinned but are anthropologically typed as Caucasian.. eg some North Indian peoples

Racial typing is a modern idea and it's been developed by people who largely want to advance white supremacy.

I used dogs n the analogy but if you prefer I could use chimpanzees.. since genetically there is less than a 1% difference between humans and chimps.... and I can think of some humans where there is no difference.

heh! heh!
Yuh need tuh su-mile som-times!

[Gamma]

if dem wi buy it...mi wi sell it!!!

[Muadib]

What would he be called in Jamaica ?

[Don1]

heh! heh!
Yuh need tuh su-mile som-times!

Yikes!!.........................................


sssshhh.. don't tell Maudib mi seh suh!!

[Karl]

in fact the skeltal structure of people from india is more like that of the caucasian than any other ....

once when i was submitting an application i did not check anything for race....the attendant told me that i had to (for census purposes|) so i told her to fill it in i was right there and she could see me ...she said no...i had to do it. when i asked her why she said that it was for me to fill out as it was what i considered myself....i put "white" and she refused to accept it!!!!

Two things -
I would hazzard a guess that she had no instructions to not accept the completed document as filled out by you & by not accepting she could very well have looked at you and checked the box...even if she then went as far as using your 'pen'

[Karl]

Yikes!!.........................................


sssshhh.. don't tell Maudib mi seh suh!!

My excuse - neva di guh a di patois school!

[Gamma]

that is what i would have thought......but that whole production about "what you consider yourself" what was that about?

[Gamma]

and THAT is the problem!!!!!

[Islandman]

I am quite aware of all you have described and in fact it has been discussed on the forum a few times in the past.

I would still insist that in the case of Obama, I can think of no situation where he could not be considered black for all practical purposes.

Maybe black as well as ..., but black nonetheless.

[Islandman]

Don1, one other point on this, while you are absolutely correct that the "one-drop" rule came from white supremist beliefs, I think it is fair to say that over time it has come to be redefined by those of us in the black community.

Whenever a mixed race (with black) person objects to be defined as black, who is it that is more outraged, the black community or the white community? Isn't it seen as a form of self-hate most of the time?

I guess what I am saying is that what started out as a negative concept (mixed race being forced to be assigned to the race of the less powerful) has changed somewhat. A mixed race person today consdiering themselves as black is now more making a declaration of comfort with ones racial makeup.

Another example of this change in racial terms (and one which I am too old-school to be comfortable with) is the use of the N-word these days compared to a generation ago. The other day I was at a barber shop which caters to both black and Puerto Ricans, and believe me, the Ricans were referring to each other in conversation as n***ger more than the blacks were. I have decided to accept the fact that young people will always see the word differently from those of previous generations, so it seems futile to try and get them to stop using it.

[Don1]

I am quite aware of all you have described and in fact it has been discussed on the forum a few times in the past.

I would still insist that in the case of Obama, I can think of no situation where he could not be considered black for all practical purposes.

Maybe black as well as ..., but black nonetheless.

In Jamaica for example... we have a different lens through which to evaluate racial or colour/social categories.

Obama would be regarded by most people in Jamaica as a "brown" man.... whatever that may mean.

[Don1]

Don1, one other point on this, while you are absolutely correct that the "one-drop" rule came from white supremist beliefs, I think it is fair to say that over time it has come to be redefined by those of us in the black community.

yes we have accepted the supremacist's beliefs and adapted them to fit our situation.

Whenever a mixed race (with black) person objects to be defined as black, who is it that is more outraged, the black community or the white community? Isn't it seen as a form of self-hate most of the time?

Agreed... such thinking usually portends a rejection of any African heritage. Whites would not be concerned since they would not see such a person as part of their group.

I guess what I am saying is that what started out as a negative concept (mixed race being forced to be assigned to the race of the less powerful) has changed somewhat. A mixed race person today consdiering themselves as black is now more making a declaration of comfort with ones racial makeup.

Agreed... I was not saying that our acceptance of mixed race people as black is good or bad... I was just pointing out the warped history of these typologies and allowing for a different interpretation... rather than the generally accepted racial model grounded in the theory white purity.

Another example of this change in racial terms (and one which I am too old-school to be comfortable with) is the use of the N-word these days compared to a generation ago. The other day I was at a barber shop which caters to both black and Puerto Ricans, and believe me, the Ricans were referring to each other in conversation as n***ger more than the blacks were. I have decided to accept the fact that young people will always see the word differently from those of previous generations, so it seems futile to try and get them to stop using it.

I guess every generation makes its own rules boss.


Selah