No comment on the Obamamercial last night?

[Islandman]

Hortical, a little advice: research and read before you post . Rarely do I see so much nonsense in one post:

1) People earning over $250,000 ... actually pay very little taxes.

First pile of nonsense. Actually the top 5% of taxpayers pay more than 50% of the taxes. The bottom 40% pay no income tax at all.

Second, you may have missed that it is now $200K according to Obama last night and not $250K. Biden said it was $150K so we are no longer sure what it is and if it is per household or per person. In many cities in the US you are not rich if you earn $200K.

2) "Universal healthcare is a right for every American"

Says who? Which law says this? Is owning a car a right too? Is owning a home a right too?

3) "a person who does not pay taxes, can not get a refund on taxes that they do not pay into the system"

Lawd God!! You are really uninformed!

It is called a REFUNDABLE tax CREDIT. Even today some people who do not pay income tax get tax credits checks.

For example the child tax credit already does this. You can google for more information but here is a quote from the IRS website:

" If the amount of your Child Tax Credit is greater than the amount of income tax you owe, you may be able to claim some or all of the difference as an “Additional” Child Tax Credit. The Additional Child Tax Credit may give you a refund even if you do not owe any tax."

These are exactly the kinds of "refundable" tax credits that Obama is planning to increase and add new ones. He is adding a "savings" tax credit, a "mortgage" tax credit,(different from the mortgage deduction) a "making work pay" tax credit , among others.

If you do not earn enough to owe income tax or the credit exceeds what you owe, the goverment will send you "refund" check for the blanace of these credits. It may not be socialism as McCain/Plain say but it is definately INCOME REDISTRIBUTION.

And before any Obama-ite says that the people who get these tax credits pay some Social Security and Medicare taxes, sure they do, and they will be eligible for those benefits later on so that is a separate issue. We are talking about getting an INCOME tax refund when you did not pay any INCOME taxes.

[Hortical]

Islandman it looks like you do not get the point. Let me break it down for you. According to Warren Buffett, he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary and his cleaner. We are talking about tax rates!

Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent.

2) "Universal healthcare is a right for every American"

This is easy for you say, since I assume you have health insurance. Pity those who sick and can not afford health insurance, and are forced in to bankruptcy like many millions of Americans every year. Comparing health insurance to owning a car is way off base. Try and not have health insurance for a year and then give me call, and lets see if you do not think it is a right.

[Lazie]

Islandman, yuh forgot that Warren Buffet came out and pointed out that his secretary was paying more taxes than he? Didn't he challenge his fellow millionares to say otherwise? (Unuh notice since then Scaly missing?).

Regarding Obama taxes. It was clarified by one of his surrogates the other day, its 250,000 for a family and 200,000 per individual.

[Me]

Joan was hoping that her absence from the Jamaican scene for a while would have removed the memories of the almshouse she keep up over the years.

That is a dangerous woman, who should not be a member of any country's leadership team.

[Mosiah]

Lawg Gad! Betta yuh say dat dan me. One bwoy almost chop off mi neck di odda day when mi talk di trute!

[Islandman]

LOL, I see you flip-flopping on me now. Saying someones tax rate is lower is a bit different from saying they pay very little taxes, don't you agree?

I respect Buffet but I think he was deliberatelty unclear about his situation when he made that statement. Clearly the reason his tax rate is supposedly lower than his secretary is because he does not pay himself much in payroll salary and most of his earnings from capital gains which is at a lower rate than straight earned income. Now maybe you think the govt should raise capital gains taxes to match earned income rates, just realise that there are unintended consequences to doing that, including consequences for that same secretaries retirement plan or what is left of it.

Personally, I think the govt has more than enough tax revenue to do what they need to do. The problem most governments have is not the amount of taxes collected but the amount that is wasted. The Bush administration have wasted more than any other administration in history.

As to health insurance, maybe we have different ideas of what is a right and what is a privilege. To me rights are things like being able to vote, being able to live where you want to live, being able to express your opinion freely. I have no problem with some form of govt health insurance, but to me that does not make it RIGHT any more than a govt welfare check should be a RIGHT. It should be seen as a mostly temporary BENEFIT when there are no other options available. But anyway we don't have a big disagreement here about the need for some form of govt health insurance.

I take it you get my point about the tax credits. Again, maybe some people don't have a problem with the govt giving people money like that but there is no getting around the fact that it is a form of income redistribution. McCain should just say that and cut out the socialism/marxism crap and get rid of the stupid fake plummer if he wants to be taken seriously.

[Islandman]

His secretary was not paying more taxes than him. Typical case of how misleading information ends up as incorrect information.

[Islandman]

One other point to make here. I don't think anybody who makes $60K a year is paying a 30% tax rate overall. Probably much closer to 10-12% by the time deductions, exemptions, and the lower 10-15% tax rates are applied to the first 30K of salary.

[Lazie]

His secretary was not paying more taxes than him. Typical case of how misleading information ends up as incorrect information.

My mistake ... higher tax rate.

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley

[Willi]

Careful with the neglect of National health.

At least the minimum must be covered!

You dont want the hired help passing on TB or some strange flu to you now! America is in danger of getting to the point where so many are uncovered that epidemics can ravage the population, rich and poor alike. On this, you are your brothers keeper.

Even in poor Jamaica, we have public health measures to deal with communicable diseases for little or no patient charge.

A healthy popn is a POTENTIALLY productive one.

[Lazie]

One other point to make here. I don't think anybody who makes $60K a year is paying a 30% tax rate overall. Probably much closer to 10-12% by the time deductions, exemptions, and the lower 10-15% tax rates are applied to the first 30K of salary.

Well, as you say ... yuh think. Buffet was more positive in his statement.

[Islandman]

Thats why google is a blessing. That secretary either was earning a lot more than 60K or she was paying a lot less than 30%

2006 Federal Tax Rate Schedules

$0- $7,550 10% of the amount over $0
$7,550-$30,650 $755 plus 15% of the amount over 7,550
$30,650-$74,200 $4,220.00 plus 25% of the amount over 30,650
$74,200 $154,800 $15,107.50 plus 28% of the amount over 74,200
$154,800-$336,550 $37,675.50 plus 33% of the amount over 154,800
$336,550-no limit $97,653.00 plus 35% of the amount over 336,550

[Mosiah]

By now, we should have learnt to take your words seriously!

[Karl]

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH KARL???!!!!

if yuh a guh tek that conciliatory tone who will we have to mock, jeer and trample afoot?!!

Don't fret yuhself...soon and very soon you shall have posts in a different vein!

[Karl]

Careful with the neglect of National health.

At least the minimum must be covered!

You dont want the hired help passing on TB or some strange flu to you now! America is in danger of getting to the point where so many are uncovered that epidemics can ravage the population, rich and poor alike. On this, you are your brothers keeper.

Even in poor Jamaica, we have public health measures to deal with communicable diseases for little or no patient charge.

A healthy popn is a POTENTIALLY productive one.

Actually in these United States most care not if they have coverage or no...they simply go via the emergency rooms. ...and later dump the invoices.