Politics has failed Jamaica

[Karl]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

Assasin (11/2/2006)just imagine it was 5 times as bad with John Gotti, and all the mobsters etc. You will not be able to totally get rid of it but you can minimize it. Jamaica is at a stage where it is crippling the country and its economy, and there is no excuse for it.

It is blatant as daylight and not punished at all.

I follow your point! ...but, who says there are not 100 worse but smarter than John Gotti operating at this moment?

Point is when found, corruption must be eliminated.

[Assasin]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

the fact is I see nothing in yours or Mr. Morgan posts to address the issue of solving corruption. Both of you are merely accepting or excusing the level of corruption in Jamaica.

Did you see transparency interntional report that we are one of the MOST corrupted countries in the world? Blaming it on the system is simply saying it is not so much the people but the system and nothing could be further from the truth.

[Balla]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

Assasin (11/2/2006)the difference in the US is people go a PRISON, and corruption on both side is exposed and punished.

How SIMPLISTIC - a definately NOT TRUE

[Assasin]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

As usual you choose to put a one liner.

Can you tell me a politician other the JAG Smith who have been to jail for corruption?

There have been politicians who have even admitted to corruption.

Can you educate us? How many people from your party have been charged with corruption.

The problem is we make these things hard and hide behind "the political system".

[Karl]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

Crime:

Do you remember me saying: To clear it up you must lean on those around the criminals.In fact, I went as far as to say, lean on the mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers...etc.

The discussion then was gun crimes. Well the same holds true for white collar crimes. Let us look at the possibility thattoo manypoliticians are rascals - Well...in my book,it is logical to take a look at those around them.Permanent Secretaries and their counter-parts in the statutory bodies have oversight powers. Nothing gets done unless the Permanent Secretaries and their counter-parts in the statutory bodies sign off on the projects. Contract awards, purchase orders, payment vouchers, cheques...all pass under their noses and or though their hands. Soooo they also must lose jobs and or go to jail when the level of corruption rise to unaccceptable levels.

If the politicians are isolated...not having corrupt persons around them much of the waste of government funds would cease. All these acts of massive corruption occur with persons coming together to make it happen. There is no other way of limiting the corruption than weeding out the corrupt persons - top to bottom and bottom to top!

[Balla]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica



So the usual for me is to put up one liners? ok

You cant arrest someone unless they are found guilty of corruption, that has to be done on the back of being FOUND GUILTY, not on allegations of corruption

I cant tell you of any politician other than JAG Smith who has been found GUILTY of corruption.

I know of no one from the PNP who has been charged with corruption

In the US ppl will go to jail if it pleases and suit the position of those in charge of the corridors of power in Washington, The Corruption you hear of are the ones that will stick as if anyone say anything that cant stick then lawsuits will fly, in Jamaica its not the same so you hear all sorts of allegations, and with parlimentary privilege it cant stick - Seaga made certain claims out of parliament was sued and lost the case and had to beg. Those special interest ppl in DC live off kickbacks and a lot of the Govt contracts in the US are awarded on shady grounds - so dont hold up the US like its morally and ethically better than everyone else. The FBI and CIA will determine what the public sees and hear and that will be racked up in the nations interest

[Assasin]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

"In the US ppl will go to jail if it pleases and suit the position of those in charge of the corridors of power in Washington, The Corruption you hear of are the ones that will stick as if anyone say anything that cant stick then lawsuits will fly, in Jamaica its not the same so you hear all sorts of allegations,"

Far from been the truth Balla. Do you think if that was the case the former speaker of the house would have been charge right now(Tom Delay)? Would Bob Ney be charged right now? Would the former Governor of Ct be charged right now?

The fact is the parliment in Ja makes the law and if they wanted they could make the laws to catch the crooks. The fact is these criminals are not even been prosecuted in Jamaica, so how can they be charged?

How long can we afford to see now evil while Jamaica perish?

[Assasin]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

"In the US ppl will go to jail if it pleases and suit the position of those in charge of the corridors of power in Washington, The Corruption you hear of are the ones that will stick as if anyone say anything that cant stick then lawsuits will fly, in Jamaica its not the same so you hear all sorts of allegations,"

Far from been the truth Balla. Do you think if that was the case the former speaker of the house would have been charge right now(Tom Delay)? Would Bob Ney be charged right now? Would the former Governor of Ct be charged right now?

The fact is the parliment in Ja makes the law and if they wanted they could make the laws to catch the crooks. The fact is these criminals are not even been prosecuted in Jamaica, so how can they be charged?

How long can we afford to see now evil while Jamaica perish?

[MdmeX]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

Balla (11/2/2006)

Assasin (11/2/2006)the difference in the US is people go a PRISON, and corruption on both side is exposed and punished.

How SIMPLISTIC - a definately NOT TRUE

And what is the procedure in Jamaica - beside forming an UMPTEENTH committee to investigate?

[Jawge]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

The man is from my parish, interesting hmmm

[Karl]

RE: Politics has failed Jamaica

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>

<SPAN class=TopStory>OBSERVER EDITORIAL</SPAN>

<SPAN class=TopStory>Guilty until proven innocent</SPAN>
<SPAN class=Subheadline></SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD>
Friday, November 03, 2006
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=StoryText align=justify>The Government has a problem, and it is clearly getting desperate. The problem is that there are unscrupulous individuals and companies that are smuggling in goods and dodging customs duties by under-invoicing or understating the value of such goods.<P class=StoryText align=justify>Taxes lost that way are taxes lost to the national treasury, and by extension, represent resources not available to meet the myriad needs of the country. Such acts cannot and must not be condoned and the Government has our support.
But at the same time, we cannot condone the finance ministry's approach to the problem, which is to treat everyone as guilty until proven innocent.<P class=StoryText align=justify>In opening debate on a Bill to amend the Customs Act in the House on Monday, Finance Minister Dr Omar Davies explained that he needed further measures to strengthen the evidence-gathering capabilities of the Customs Department in relation to smuggling, under-invoicing and under-valuation of goods.<P class=StoryText align=justify>The gravamen of the minister's concern is that some importers would receive the original supplier invoices, retain them for their income tax purposes and use them to claim against expenses. But they would submit another invoice to Customs, understating the value of the goods or the volume or number of the items imported.<P class=StoryText align=justify>That's theft from the national treasury by whatever name it is called and we would like to see arrests being made.
Dr Davies said the problem was worsened in instances where Customs discovered the original invoices and sought, through the courts, to require the presence of the maker of the documents to give evidence.<P class=StoryText align=justify>Very often, the maker of the original invoice does not wish to alienate his or her client and does not wish to testify. In cases where he or she comes to Jamaica, the case is postponed for a variety of reasons. No one should be surprised that in such circumstances, the original supplier of the invoice would find the whole process tedious and counter-productive after a time, and so choose not to testify.
Up to this point we have no beef with Dr Davies. But here's the rub.<P class=StoryText align=justify>The Bill is seeking to shift the burden of evidence to the suspected importer. Dr Davies is aware that he is turning upon its head the long-standing tradition in law that presupposes that a man is innocent until proven guilty.<P class=StoryText align=justify>Before embarking upon such a draconian step and making out the majority of honest importers to be criminals, we would have liked to see Dr Davies and the Government doing more to catch the real crooks.<P class=StoryText align=justify>For example, how effective is Customs intelligence in the effort to catch the thieves? Has there been any attempt to work with overseas agencies to establish invoice fraud? And is there an issue of complicity of Customs agents with crooked importers? All these should be countenanced before trampling on the rights of the citizenry.<P class=StoryText align=justify>Such fundamental intrusion can only be justified on the most compelling of reasons, and we have not yet been convinced that the Customs situation warrants such.
We hope that next week when the debate resumes, the rights and freedoms of Jamaicans will be kept uppermost in the minds of the people we have elected to serve us.