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  • Debate on controversial crime bills continue

    Unrelenting opposition to six controversial crime bills has forced the Joint Select Committee of Parliament examining the proposed legislation to consider altering some of the provisions.

    One member of the Joint Select Committee Tuesday warned that the purpose of the bills could be defeated if adequate consensus is not achieved with all stakeholders.

    After nearly three hours of deliberation, Former Attorney General AJ Nicholson warned that if the committee adopts a hard-headed approach to the bills, there could be undesirable implications.

    He says the objections raised so far warrant serious concern and the committee should take a second look at the offending clauses.
    The Joint Select Committee is considering several proposals, including an amendment to the Bail Act which would prevent persons charged with certain offences from applying for bail for sixty days.

    This as well as another proposal to allow persons to be detained for up to seventy two hours before being taken before a court, has proven to be contentious among lawyers and human rights activists.
    In urging the need for further consensus on the bills, Senator Nicholson said the committee should be guided by the input of other stakeholders to minimise a long term backlash.

    "I put on the table that perhaps you should consider another way of approaching this, I am not saying that we should abandon this way but please let us practice another approach, the approach of practice direction of by the Chief Justice. If we don't, it will mean that work of the security forces is going to be even more difficult because the public would not have brought into what is being put forward," he said.
    Committee Chair Senator Dorothy Lightbourne who echoed the sentiments said the concerns that have been raised will be taken seriously before the Joint Select Committee wraps up its deliberations.

    Meanwhile, Commissioner of Police Rear Admiral Hardley Lewin and his Deputy Mark Shields failed to convince members of the Joint Select Committee that restricting the right to bail for sixty days will reduce crime.
    The two senior officers were grilled by members of the Committee which is considering six proposed crime bills.

    The senior officers returned to Gordon House after they were told last week to present hard data of persons accused of serious crimes went on to commit other crimes while on bail.

    Deputy Commissioner Shields disclosed that police records show seventy one persons charged with serious criminal offences have been accused of committing other crimes while on bail.

    But committee member Senator KD Knight was far from convinced by the data that restricting bail for sixty days could have prevented accused persons from committing more crimes.

    http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/12030/26/
    "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

  • #2
    Police present seven reasons for 60 days


    THE POLICE High Command yesterday presented seven cases, detailing alleged crimes committed by accused persons on bail, as they sought to convince legislators to pass six controversial crime bills.
    Senior personnel of the Jamaica Constabulary Force (JCF), for the second time, appeared before a joint select committee at Gordon House, making a case for 60-day detention of persons charged with serious offences.
    Police records show that, to date, 71 persons charged with serious criminal offences have allegedly committed other crimes while on bail.
    Deputy Commissioner of Police Mark Shields told the committee that, of the 71 accused, 26 were charged with murder. Giving a further breakdown, the crime chief said that of 21 alleged offenders, seven were believed to have carried out a second killing.
    Senior cop quizzed
    Committee member and attorney-at-law Ronald Thwaites quizzed the senior cop about the statistics, demanding evidence of the circumstances in which bail was offered in the seven cases.
    Commenting on the data, Thwaites argued that implicit in the deputy commissioner's remarks was the allegation that a judge or magistrate who awarded bail "did so on irresponsible grounds".
    Chairperson Dorothy Light-bourne disagreed with Thwaites, arguing that there were instances where all the information was not presented to a judge.
    "You could never seek to restrict a fundamental thing like bail unless you have the evidence that there is an abuse in the grant of it," she said.
    Continuing his presentation, Shields said he hoped the legislators would reach a compromise that protected the rights of the victims as well as those of the accused.
    After three meetings of the committee, lawyers, human rights groups and committee members have failed to reach a consensus on the bills, particularly the two that contain interim provisions which will affect the fundamental rights and freedoms of Jamaicans.
    Leader of Opposition Business in the Senate, AJ Nicholson, said it was crucial that the committee try to arrive at a consensus.
    He suggested that the committee should consider another approach, noting that there was much disquiet in relation to the two controversial bills.

    Illustrative cases presented by the Police High Command

    Case #1
    Charged with carnal abuse 2003
    Granted bail
    Victim of carnal abuse was murdered 2004. Victim was 6-7 months pregnant
    Charged with murder
    Subsequently granted bail
    Then arrested for double murder 2006
    Case #2
    Prominent gang leader charged for murder in 2003
    While on bail allegedly committed triple murder January 2005
    Absconded to the USA
    Subsequently held by US authorities and deported
    Charged for triple murder, given bail
    Breached bail conditions and re-arrested
    Then given bail again
    Witness murdered
    Now in custody
    Case #3
    Charged for shooting with intent March 2007
    While on bail allegedly committed murder February 2008
    Absconded bail, held in Cuban waters
    Currently in custody
    Case #4
    Charged for illegal possession of firearm in 2006
    While on bail and awaiting trial, committed abduction, rape and shooting
    with intent (2008)
    Case #5
    Charged with illegal possession of firearm
    While on bail, shooting with intent (13/8/2008)
    Illegal possession 15/9/2008
    Case #6
    Charged for double murder in 2003
    While on bail, charged for conspiracy to commit murder (2005)
    Matter now before the Circuit Court, and offender currently on bail
    Case #7
    Charged for murder;
    Absconded bail
    Subsequently allegedly committed a double murder Suspect in four other murders as well as one arson

    http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glean...ead/lead2.html
    "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

    Comment


    • #3
      Jamaica is a funny place. Them say Bruce crime measures soft and them can't even pass this them simple measures yah, a talk crap and make it look like dem a do something.
      • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Assasin View Post
        Jamaica is a funny place. Them say Bruce crime measures soft and them can't even pass this them simple measures yah, a talk crap and make it look like dem a do something.
        Karl admitted that him cannot afford to see this gov't succeed in anything. Yuh think a him alone? I heard an exchange between KD and Lightbourne last week .... it is clear what the tactic is.

        Now, there are some people who are putting forward credible arguments against these bills.
        "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

        Comment


        • #5
          When the simple measures encroach on the rights of the ordinary citizen who may not be involved in anything serious, then it would be dangerous to tell Bruce to run wid it.


          BLACK LIVES MATTER

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
            When the simple measures encroach on the rights of the ordinary citizen who may not be involved in anything serious, then it would be dangerous to tell Bruce to run wid it.
            Agreed, however, aren't these proposals geared towards REPEAT OFFENDERS? I thought it was ...
            "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

            Comment


            • #7
              a di same people dem say them willing fi give up rights.

              We have to decide. We either keep or right or stop talking. Some of the measures are not that draconian. You can't say it too soft and two hard at the same time.
              • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lazie View Post
                Karl admitted that him cannot afford to see this gov't succeed in anything. Yuh think a him alone? I heard an exchange between KD and Lightbourne last week .... it is clear what the tactic is.

                Now, there are some people who are putting forward credible arguments against these bills.
                ...are you sure that was what I said?
                Go to the archives and put up that post?
                Thank you!
                "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Karl View Post
                  ...are you sure that was what I said?
                  Go to the archives and put up that post?
                  Thank you!

                  "
                  Originally Posted by Lazie
                  ppl yah! How much of a financial strain has Air J been on the Jamaican taxpayers over the years? The gov't is trying to get off the books by next year, now the comrades on Real Business a have brilliant ideas. Dem asking why not have the hoteliers investing in Air J. Local and foreign hoteliers that is. What if they're not interested in taking on Air J? Hyman said if Air J planes stop flying the hoteliers would have problems. Really?

                  Listen to comrade Thwaites yesterday as they spoke to Comrade Davies about the SCJ divestment, he made a remark the gov't aiming to meet their fiscal deficit target.

                  That remark proved my point ... there are those who cannot afford to see this gov't succeed. Right Karl!!?



                  Yes!

                  http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/s...97&postcount=7
                  "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lazie View Post
                    "
                    Originally Posted by Lazie
                    ppl yah! How much of a financial strain has Air J been on the Jamaican taxpayers over the years? The gov't is trying to get off the books by next year, now the comrades on Real Business a have brilliant ideas. Dem asking why not have the hoteliers investing in Air J. Local and foreign hoteliers that is. What if they're not interested in taking on Air J? Hyman said if Air J planes stop flying the hoteliers would have problems. Really?

                    Listen to comrade Thwaites yesterday as they spoke to Comrade Davies about the SCJ divestment, he made a remark the gov't aiming to meet their fiscal deficit target.

                    That remark proved my point ... there are those who cannot afford to see this gov't succeed. Right Karl!!?


                    Yes!

                    http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/s...97&postcount=7

                    Thought your earlier post said - http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/s...735#post132735 - I said that I could not afford to see this government not succeed?
                    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      you are right karl...tho i find it funny seeings that it is not so different from you telling me that i that i am voting for obama because he's black......as opposed to for example voting along party line.....

                      look like yuh on a liquid diet...kool aid at that.

                      Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm convinced, nothing will be accomplished with this committee. Almost every meeting there is a flare up. KD threw a temper tantrum last week (or the week before). The commish and asst commish was told to present evidence that people on bail have committed other offenses. As Shields went through the list ... Ronnie Thwaites start up. Now listening to excerpts on NNN, its a KD/ Deacon tag team.
                        "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

                        Comment

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