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Denmark shows US..and us..the way

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  • Denmark shows US..and us..the way

    This shows why the US is NOT necessarily the main direction to look in for alternative energy policy or technology.... although they do have good technology... but their energy policy is very poor overall.



    Op-Ed Columnist
    Flush With Energy
    By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
    Published: August 9, 2008
    Copenhagen
    Skip to next paragraph Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times
    Thomas L. Friedman

    Go to Columnist Page »



    The Arctic Hotel in Ilulissat, Greenland, is a charming little place on the West Coast, but no one would ever confuse it for a Four Seasons — maybe a One Seasons. But when my wife and I walked back to our room after dinner the other night and turned down our dim hallway, the hall light went on. It was triggered by an energy-saving motion detector. Our toilet even had two different flushing powers depending on — how do I say this delicately — what exactly you’re flushing. A two-gear toilet! I’ve never found any of this at an American hotel. Oh, if only we could be as energy efficient as Greenland!
    A day later, I flew back to Denmark. After appointments here in Copenhagen, I was riding in a car back to my hotel at the 6 p.m. rush hour. And boy, you knew it was rush hour because 50 percent of the traffic in every intersection was bicycles. That is roughly the percentage of Danes who use two-wheelers to go to and from work or school every day here. If I lived in a city that had dedicated bike lanes everywhere, including one to the airport, I’d go to work that way, too. It means less traffic, less pollution and less obesity.
    What was most impressive about this day, though, was that it was raining. No matter. The Danes simply donned rain jackets and pants for biking. If only we could be as energy smart as Denmark!
    Unlike America, Denmark, which was so badly hammered by the 1973 Arab oil embargo that it banned all Sunday driving for a while, responded to that crisis in such a sustained, focused and systematic way that today it is energy independent. (And it didn’t happen by Danish politicians making their people stupid by telling them the solution was simply more offshore drilling.)
    What was the trick? To be sure, Denmark is much smaller than us and was lucky to discover some oil in the North Sea. But despite that, Danes imposed on themselves a set of gasoline taxes, CO2 taxes and building-and-appliance efficiency standards that allowed them to grow their economy — while barely growing their energy consumption — and gave birth to a Danish clean-power industry that is one of the most competitive in the world today. Denmark today gets nearly 20 percent of its electricity from wind. America? About 1 percent.
    And did Danes suffer from their government shaping the market with energy taxes to stimulate innovations in clean power? In one word, said Connie Hedegaard, Denmark’s minister of climate and energy: “No.” It just forced them to innovate more — like the way Danes recycle waste heat from their coal-fired power plants and use it for home heating and hot water, or the way they incinerate their trash in central stations to provide home heating. (There are virtually no landfills here.)
    There is little whining here about Denmark having $10-a-gallon gasoline because of high energy taxes. The shaping of the market with high energy standards and taxes on fossil fuels by the Danish government has actually had “a positive impact on job creation,” added Hedegaard. “For example, the wind industry — it was nothing in the 1970s. Today, one-third of all terrestrial wind turbines in the world come from Denmark.” In the last 10 years, Denmark’s exports of energy efficiency products have tripled. Energy technology exports rose 8 percent in 2007 to more than $10.5 billion in 2006, compared with a 2 percent rise in 2007 for Danish exports as a whole.
    “It is one of our fastest-growing export areas,” said Hedegaard. It is one reason that unemployment in Denmark today is 1.6 percent. In 1973, said Hedegaard, “we got 99 percent of our energy from the Middle East. Today it is zero.”
    Frankly, when you compare how America has responded to the 1973 oil shock and how Denmark has responded, we look pathetic.
    “I have observed that in all other countries, including in America, people are complaining about how prices of [gasoline] are going up,” Denmark’s prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, told me. “The cure is not to reduce the price, but, on the contrary, to raise it even higher to break our addiction to oil. We are going to introduce a new tax reform in the direction of even higher taxation on energy and the revenue generated on that will be used to cut taxes on personal income — so we will improve incentives to work and improve incentives to save energy and develop renewable energy.”
    Because it was smart taxes and incentives that spurred Danish energy companies to innovate, Ditlev Engel, the president of Vestas — Denmark’s and the world’s biggest wind turbine company — told me that he simply can’t understand how the U.S. Congress could have just failed to extend the production tax credits for wind development in America.
    Why should you care?
    “We’ve had 35 new competitors coming out of China in the last 18 months,” said Engel, “and not one out of the U.S.”
    TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

    Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

    D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

  • #2
    You believe that California's Energy Policy is poor ?

    Sad.. you started off with such promise in the early days..

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Maudib View Post
      You believe that California's Energy Policy is poor ?

      Sad.. you started off with such promise in the early days..


      Is California the US? It is 1 of 50 states when last I checked.

      I stated that the US alternative energy policy is poor. Anyone with even a modest knowlege of this sector knows this.
      TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

      Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

      D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

      Comment


      • #4
        Actually if one looks to California then one is looking to the US.

        Probably too complex a concept for you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Maudib View Post
          Actually if one looks to California then one is looking to the US.

          Probably too complex a concept for you.
          The point is... even California is WAY behind other nations in alternative energy policy and practice.. such as Denmark as Friedman's article demonstrates...even you should be able to see that.

          You seem to have some starry eyed affliction with California... if you wanted to be credible.. you'd stack up California's achievements with Denmark's... it will pale in comparison... so there is really no incentive for you to do that even if you have the ability.
          Last edited by Don1; August 11, 2008, 09:35 AM.
          TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

          Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

          D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Don1 View Post
            The point is... even California is WAY behind other nations in alternative energy policy and practice.. such as Denmark as Friedman's article demonstrates...even you should be able to see that.

            You seem to have some starry eyed affliction with California... if you wanted to be credible.. you'd stack up California's achievements with Denmark's... it will pale in comparison... so there is really no incentive for you to do that even if you have the ability.
            Your ignorance is impressive.. the real danger is that your probably know not you know not...

            "California is the global leader in solar energy, together with Germany and Japan.

            California has always played an important role in the development of renewable energy. The current policies underline that this ambition is valid as ever in today's environment. To underline this, the state has also announced plans for a "hydrogen highway", a system of about 200 hydorgen refueling stations along major highways. Those interested in renewable energy in Europe, should also keep an eye on California. In some areas, this could be a snapshot of Europe's future policies."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Maudib View Post
              Your ignorance is impressive.. the real danger is that your probably know not you know not...

              "California is the global leader in solar energy, together with Germany and Japan.

              California has always played an important role in the development of renewable energy. The current policies underline that this ambition is valid as ever in today's environment. To underline this, the state has also announced plans for a "hydrogen highway", a system of about 200 hydorgen refueling stations along major highways. Those interested in renewable energy in Europe, should also keep an eye on California. In some areas, this could be a snapshot of Europe's future policies."
              The more you post.. the more you prove my points without realizing it.

              1. California leads the US in alternative energy... the US lags other countries such as Denmark.

              2. California has good technology, has made a creditable start on the ground in alternative energy and has impressive PLANS.... other nations such as Denmark are FAR ahead in implementation and in making important lifestyle changes.... California lags such nations.

              wake up to reality.. the US and California are not the be all and end all here....others are ahead
              TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

              Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

              D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

              Comment


              • #8
                one a unnuh a talk 'bout solar energy and one a talk bout wind energy...but unnuh so intent on fighting with each other .....

                Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gamma View Post
                  one a unnuh a talk 'bout solar energy and one a talk bout wind energy...but unnuh so intent on fighting with each other .....
                  No fighting on my side.
                  I acknowledge that California has admirable achievements and impressive plans in certain areas of alternative energy.. but other countries are more advanced in implemention and also in certain technologies such as wind tech.

                  I'm not talking about this or that technology but alternative energy policy as a whole which encompasses various aspects:

                  wind, biofuels, solar, hydro, geo-thermal etc as well as tax policy, financial incentives, lifestyle changes..etc

                  Maudib is concentrating on solar because California, which he is enarmored with, has a a very respectable program in this area and is a center of innovation in photovoltaics... but a miniscule percentage of their energy production is solar based.

                  California has a TARGET of generating 20% of their energy from ALL alternative sources by 2011.... Denmark produces 20% of its energy TODAY from wind ALONE... and more from other alternative sources like hydro.

                  Denmark is FAR ahead in alternative energy.. but Maudib has difficulty conceding to anything.. especially in the face of facts.
                  TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                  Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                  D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    back inthe late 70's I spent some time in some cheap hotels in France. They all had a "minuterie" situated at strategic points in the hallways; these were switches that turned on the hallway lights long enough for you to get to your room before they automatically shut off.

                    Back then it seemed a little archaic to me but it's also little things like these that can help save costs and consumption. Europeans have had the high fuel prices for decades and so have begun dealing with that long before Americans saw $4/gal gas prices...BTW Europeans now paying close to $10/gal.

                    Americans are only now getting (one hopes) with the alternative energy programmes.

                    Oh and Don the word "minUscule" is one of the most misspelt in English.
                    Peter R

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Peter R View Post
                      back inthe late 70's I spent some time in some cheap hotels in France. They all had a "minuterie" situated at strategic points in the hallways; these were switches that turned on the hallway lights long enough for you to get to your room before they automatically shut off.

                      Back then it seemed a little archaic to me but it's also little things like these that can help save costs and consumption. Europeans have had the high fuel prices for decades and so have begun dealing with that long before Americans saw $4/gal gas prices...BTW Europeans now paying close to $10/gal.

                      Americans are only now getting (one hopes) with the alternative energy programmes.

                      Oh and Don the word "minUscule" is one of the most misspelt in English.
                      I guess some have this inordinate fascination with things American and a tendency to believe that everything Americans do is the ultimate.

                      Thanks for the correction
                      TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                      Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                      D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        such a LIKKLE word give such BIG problems!

                        Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "Those interested in renewable energy in Europe, should also keep an eye on California. In some areas, this could be a snapshot of Europe's future policies."

                          Waiting for you to resolve this....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And some believe that although California has good technology...their energy policy is very poor overall.

                            It takes all kinds.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Maudib View Post
                              "Those interested in renewable energy in Europe, should also keep an eye on California. In some areas, this could be a snapshot of Europe's future policies."

                              Waiting for you to resolve this....
                              resolve this? why should I? where is this from? what's the reference?

                              I'm not too interested in quotes plucked from thin air or without proper references and context... post a link to the article and I'll consider addressing this.

                              California leads the US but has:

                              1. Excessive reliance on gas based motor transport, highways, expressways etc... extremely poor public transport system.. unlike the leading European countries

                              2. Relatively low percentage of energy production from alternatives... unlike the leading European countries

                              California is decent especially compared to the rest of the US... but generally is behind the leading Europeans in implementation of alternative energy programs. A lot of this may be due to lack of federal support but that does not change the reality... they lag the leading Europeans.

                              I have posted data to support this contention within the initial Friedman article above.

                              If you wish to post data refuting my thesis I will consider it.. otherwise i'm not interested in your or any other person's unsubstantiated suppositions.

                              dun talk.
                              TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                              Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                              D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                              Comment

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