Morning Historian:Rastafarian are "TRUE PATRIOTS" of Jamaica

[Rockman]

Any time soon Historian?
Really looking forward to it.




Blessed

[Historian]

This is Ridiculous, Rockman!

Surely you can see the irrelevance of comparing Jamaicans who migrate to wealthier countries because of economic reasons on the one hand with the Rastafarians and their longing for Africa on the other!!!!!!

Jamaica is, first and foremost, MY country! The Rastafarian movement, on the other hand, has declared in essence that Africa is their homeland, and that they long for the day when they will return to Africa!

How can you compare that with ordinary Jamaicans who live abroad, and many of whom have every intention of returning to their home one day?

[Rockman]

A hear yuh Historian, but we should look closer at the comparison. Like I alluded to Rasta chant of returning to Africa is simply a movement to express the thought that Rasta is displeased with the leadership of Jamaica ,and the last time I checked they were still in Jamaica. The suggestion that such a gesture is unpatriotic by someone that actually migrated(FOR WHATEVER reasons).....is troubling, and eats at the heart of that criticism.
But what of our Hero, was Garvey a patriot?
The white man was told by the backward indians to leave that dreadful yellow stuff in the ground, they did not listen and as a result the world have a problem with depleted uranium.



Blessed

[Rockman]

There are more rastas now in Ja and the world than ever before, perhaps the gesture is seen for what it is by the others, and of course if they(the majority) did not participate..., then why say rasta is unpatriotic?
You have given credence to one group(Baldhead so called mainsteam)and not to another(rasta),that is what rastas want to change.



Blessed

[Rockman]

America really belongs to the indians right?
Are indians patriotic?
It is about a system and not a country.





Blessed

[Muadib]

Oh.. so patriots of a country that are upset about the leadership adopt another country, form a religion where the leader of that country is their God and chant about going there..

Strange.

[Historian]

A hear yuh Historian, but we should look closer at the comparison. Like I alluded to Rasta chant of returning to Africa is simply a movement to express the thought that Rasta is displeased with the leadership of Jamaica ,and the last time I checked they were still in Jamaica. The suggestion that such a gesture is unpatriotic by someone that actually migrated(FOR WHATEVER reasons).....is troubling, and eats at the heart of that criticism.
But what of our Hero, was Garvey a patriot?
The white man was told by the backward indians to leave that dreadful yellow stuff in the ground, they did not listen and as a result the world have a problem with depleted uranium.

Rockman, I understand what you're saying. However, the point I've been trying to make is that this belief that somewhere in Africa (and NOT Jamaica) is their home is a central plank in the Rastafarian philosophy. Many Jamaicans who migrated, on the other hand, intend to eventually RETURN to Jamaica, which they regard as home, as soon as they've obtained the education or material things needed abroad. Many, as you no doubt realize, actually start building their retirement homes in Jamaica long before they return!

When the Rastaman waves that strange-coloured flag and sinks of Africa, that is WHERE he longs to go, to leave this "unfamiliar" Babylon that Jamaica is! In the meantime, the Rastafarian lives in Jamaica, developing his own culture separate and apart from non-Rastas in order to create an identity separate and apart from the average poor an middle class Jamaican!

Why doesn't he migrate to the Africa he longs for? Maybe this shows the hypocrisy of the Rastafarian attitude towards Africa, or maybe the financial costs and risks involved in actually uprooting oneself and moving to a strange land are such that hesitation has set in.

But where is the Jamaican flag when they hold their ceremonies? How many Rastamen vote and take part in civil exercises/ceremonies that are deemed necessary to nationhood? I, personally, LOVE the gold, green and black, and trust me when I say that if I should become a leader of Jamaica, I would insist that every public building and every formal ceremony include the Jamaican flag!

By the way, with reference to your Native American Indian anecdote, we should be thankful that many of the other advice given by the Indians were ignored by the White man! A lot of the advancements in medicine, etc. today comes from scientific research, an activity that runs counter to the traditional, quasi-communal societies of the American Indians!

[Sir X]

Compare that to the Jews in New York , around the world who declare Israel thier homeland and a longing to return, how unpratriotic are they in the americas , europe etc?

Dont confuse repartriation with patriotism to ones nations , is it possible to have both ? Of course as long as conflicts dont arise that would force one to make a choice.The Jewish community do it everyday .

The right of self return is apart of Jewish doctrine .Your last sentence (( have every intention of returning to their home one day? )) Is just what it is intentions no difference than the Jewish movement , intentions to go back to Africa and build a strong African state with Ethiopia as its nuclues .

Comparable to the Jewish intention to have a Jewish state after 3000 years of non existence , it is feasible.

I would bet my life on it when that day comes Jamaica will not be left behind , in heart , spirit and historical relevance and significane.

[Sir X]

I doubt anyone of you would question any Jewish politician patriotism to thier respective Western World country , esp the americas with severe backlash.

When we all know they serve two masters , Israel and whatever Western World they politake in.Isreal right to exist is foremost a part of thier political campaign and agenda.

It doesnt excuse them from advancing whatever Western World politrick as long as its beneficail to Israel.

Rasta are patriotic to Jamaica as the Jews are to whatever western government they politrick in.

Like it or not thats the reality.

[Muadib]

Poor argument.

You cannot demonstrate Rasta patriotism simply by referencing the Jewish experience. Jews integrate in and support the institutions of their adopted land for political and economic leverage, maybe even patriotism... where do you see the Rasta doing that in Jamaica ?

[Sir X]

Yuh sick , Ben ? Havent you seen the contributions of Rastafarians in Jamaica?

I will not spell it out to you.

[Muadib]

Contributions ??

I think the problem here is a lack of understanding of what it means to be a patriot of a country.

Mek mi mek it simple.

If Jamaica and Ethiopia fall out and man haffi pick a side...what Rasta woulda duh ?

Why Rasta should be patriots of Jamaica ? Because dem born yah ?

Dem declare dem patriotism long time.. yuh would haffi blind not to see it.

[Sir X]

Rephrase that question if Isreal and America fall out what would the Jews do ? It does not diminish the fact that Jews have fought and died for Western powers declaring loyalty. even german jews fought for germany before the advent of Hitler and I am sure they will fight for germany again.

Now to use one nation as a reference to judge ones patriotism is ridiculous , as Rastas would fight and die for Jamaica to day and tommorrrow , and loyalties would be split , just as they would be in the Jewish community if asked to choose between two masters.

Dont question a mans patriotism or simplify it with retarded reasoning.

[Sir X]

I get the impression that some of us view Rastas a non productive elements of Jamaican society that have never contributed nothing to Jamaica and are still not contributing squat to Jamaica , they are intertwined with Jamaica.

They are Teachers, Mds , Lawyers and peace officers even soldiers , do we believe that they have to wear locks to be Rastafarians and burn ganja ?

I have heard about our bias towards Rastas as a people but I am getting evidence here 1st hand , that Jamaicans themselves hold a stereotypical view , hatred of rastafarians that can be matched by the average ignorant forgein individual.

It does hurt because it is shocking coming from your own country man.Man must know betta

[Muadib]

Rasta would fight and die for Jamaica ???

Where is the evidence of this ?

All you need to do is provide evidence of Rasta Patriotism that counters their DECLARED loyalty to another land.. that would be the beginning of a good argument.

"The visit of Emperor Haile Selassie to Kingston in 1966 gave the Rastafarians unprecedented publicity and created a sustained national and international interest in the movement. Jamaicans greeted the royal personage with such enthusiasm that devotion to Ethiopia, qua Africa, and to Selassie rivaled, and appeared to threaten, the rising Jamaican nationalism and patriotism."