This patwa debate is symbolic of our malaise

[Gamma]

for interest see the below interview with LKJ....


WITH YOUR POETRY AND LYRICS, YOU USE A CREOLE, JAMAICAN TYPE OF ENGLISH TO CRAFT WORDS. IS THIS A MORE PERSONAL WAY TO EXPRESS YOURSELF, BY RESHAPING THE LANGUAGE?
It's interesting that you should ask that because only this year a book came out that I reviewed for the Guardian newspaper. It's called A DICTIONARY OF CARIBBEAN ENGLISH by Richard Allsop. He tries to codify a lexicon of Caribbean speech, given the different island variations. For example, one fruit could be called one thing on one island and could be called an entirely different thing on another island. There has been, from the late sixities, a dictionary of Jamaican creole which was compiled by a man named Cassidy.
As far as the writing is concerned, a revolution was started in Caribbean poetry by Edward Brathwaite where he was trying to create a new aesthetic that wasn't based on the meter of English poetry, the iambic pentameter. He incorporated the rhythms of Caribbean speech, jazz rhythms, blues rhythms, calypso rhythms and so on. In a sense, what I've been doing with reggae, what I call reggae poetry is to consolidate that revolution that was started by Brathwaite in terms of the language and in terms of the aesthetics.

[Islandman]

If you are proposing a class or program in the schools that focuses on bridging the English/patios language gap, which BTW we all know is MUCH, MUCH smaller than the English/Chinese language gap, then I would be 100% for something like that. That actually would make a lot of sense.

[Muadib]

I am proposing that we all approach this with an open mind and not trivialize a complex issue. We must also recognize that Jamaica is not an English speaking country and has not been for going on 300 years.

Speaking at the annual conference held by the Support Centre for Teachers using Chinese as the Medium of Instruction (CMI) Centre of the University of Hong Kong, Mr Young said that the policy of using Chinese as medium of instruction was generally accepted by schools, parents, students and the community as a whole.


The CMI Centre and the Joint Working Group conducted two surveys respectively last year. Both surveys confirmed the positive impact of CMI teaching on students' learning.


"The use of CMI teaching could enhance students' self-learning ability and confidence, stimulate a higher order thinking, re-kindle students' interest and motivation in learning, improve student-teacher relationship and activate students' participation," Mr Young said.


"Based on the preliminary observation from most of the schools, the results of Form One students showed improvements, whereas no regression in the English language subject was found," he said.

[Islandman]

Unfortunately some of the people who I hear trivializing it are the ones with the simplistic "Lets teach patios in the schools" proposals, as if that is the magic bullet for our educational problems.

Whatever way we can get students to read more, I will support. Unfortunately not many great books are translated into patois as far as I know . I suppose the Bible would be a good place to start.

[Peter R]

Gamma,

I had to work today so missed out on all the action, so at the risk of being repetitive I want to add my tuppance.

My feeling is that patois, the teaching, learning of it could be introduced in schools in certain areas, but as the primary language of learning I don't see any benefit to it, nor does it make sense practically given the global nature of our world.

Are we saying that jamaican kids don't know the difference between for example, if a teacher says: "mi seh unu fi siddung" as opposed to, "sit down I said" ? so we need to use it in school? it already is anyway so i don't see this as any major development.

I believe that patois should be confined to those subject areas I mentioned before, either as a subject initself as apart of a social studies or jamaican studies at the higher level, language arts etc. With respect to wider and deeper learning I don't believe that patois itself has the depth or breadth of vocabulary to teach many subjects appropriately.

We should only get carried away with patois if it appears that that part of our culture might be under threat of extinction. I believe the djs and musicians, poets , writers are doing a great job of keeping patois not only alive but expanding.

pr

[Mosiah]

Unfortunately some of the people who I hear trivializing it are the ones with the simplistic "Lets teach patios in the schools" proposals, as if that is the magic bullet for our educational problems.

And who exactly has been doing that?

The evidence is overwhelming. I posted the results of some study a few months ago, and Maudib has posted quite a few today. Only the emotional and close-minded would not even ponder for a moment that what is being proposed is more than a trivial Ms. Lou moment. She, of course, started the revolution and it is for others to take it to its natural conclusion. And not just for the hell of it. It might just be the key to help this country overcome its every day struggle with the English langwij.

[Gamma]

it should be formalised....is

[Mosiah]

We should only get carried away with patois if it appears that that part of our culture might be under threat of extinction. I believe the djs and musicians, poets , writers are doing a great job of keeping patois not only alive but expanding.

We should not worry about patois dying. English is more endangered than patois right now. Have you seen the many flyers put out by govt agencies? Yuh see di Unda di Sea article di odda day?

But the two can co-exist, with none being less important than the other. There is a time and place for everything.

[Muadib]

Wi haffi give di ress of di school dem a chance to compete with Campion.. dat alone is worth the effort..

[Muadib]

This is the part that mosts interests me:

"The use of CMI teaching could enhance students' self-learning ability and confidence, stimulate a higher order thinking, re-kindle students' interest and motivation in learning, improve student-teacher relationship and activate students' participation," Mr Young said

[Mosiah]

Hmmm. When I said this months ago, where was the choir?

[Muadib]

what was your medium language ?

[Willi]

I get this feeling that for every QC and Rhodes Scholar we have 100 illiterate souls out there who couldn't spell Rhodes or even QC! We need to communicate to them in their (our) language and bring them around to English. It is worth the effort.

Huh?

But their PARENTS and friends are illiterate in ALL languages, including patwah!

Hell, we are ALL illiterate in patois. It is a constantly moving written goalpost.

[Assasin]

how you say "Where are you going" in Patwa?

I can think of many ways, what will be the standard?

[Willi]

how you say "Where are you going" in Patwa?

I can think of many ways, what will be the standard?

Oh yes,

then we have to distinguish between true patois and slang!