This patwa debate is symbolic of our malaise

[Gamma]

well baddaz that reasoning is fallacious.....what if we could produce MORE?

[Muadib]

Answer a simple question:

If you live in Japan and speak Japanese and you have the option to send your kid to an American School (where instruction is given in English) or a Japanese school (where instruction is given in Japanese) which school would you send your child to ?

[Gamma]

i was going to mention the cubans in florida but they really don't need to learn english...do they?

[Bricktop]

Yes.. don't see the relevance.

In any country you decide to move to, it would be prudent to learn the language.

You don't see the relevance? You don't see a problem with a Jamaican being unable to effectively communicate with someone using the English language?

[Baddaz]

thats a hyopothetical that needs revision... let me help you... is there a clearly defined objective on the kid and parents part... does the child speak and or understand english... what level of proficiency... those are only but a few of the variables to be considered... come again...

[Baddaz]

fallacious... more by better teaching methods... more by better trained teachers... more by better disciplined students... more by better social economic environment conducive to learning...

gamma, i am trying to be an antagonist here... i am merely stating that other factors need to be examined before we can conclude that the problem lies with instructing in english... or by that extension, english is the problem...

in saying that, i am a proponent of patois as it currently used and would support a patois orthographic (thats the word) project and let evolution take its course...

i have a problem with this ad hoc introduction without a detailed examination of the effects of such an attempt...

[Gamma]

well baddaz i agree with you that it must be approached in a scientific and professional manner not in an ad hoc way....i am not in the least calling for an ad hoc approach......nor do i any any way necessarily believe that teaching in english is the, or a, problem......

[Muadib]

I think you are missing the point.

The whole idea is to improve the learning process by using appropriate language of communication.

[Islandman]

Look like dem want to give up one of the few advantages we have left when competing for a piece of the largest economy on the world.

The way i see it, if a one want to spend some private money on a project to translate the bible or whatever other book, great. It is probably a useful exercise.

But I don't buy this argument that the reason we can't pass CXC is because the teacher speaking in "hinglish".

WE CAN"T PASS NUTTEN BECAUSE WE NUH READ NUTTEN!!!!!

"If you want to hide anything from black people, put it in a book"
- Marcus Garvey

[Muadib]

The clearly defined objective is imparting knowledge to the child as effectively as possible.

I posit it is more effective imparting knowledge in the native language rather than in a foreign language.

[Muadib]

Imagine living in a country where you do not speak the official language, your parents do not speak it, your friends do no speak it, your community does not speak it... yet you are asked to learn in it.

Daunting...

[Islandman]

Just about every Asian immigant in the US school system faces that, and guess what, they outperform the native language speakers within a few years.

Meanwhile black people as usual find an excuse and say them need to be taught in Ebonics to learn properly.

[Mosiah]

If a man from Mars landed in Jamaica and he wanted to communicate important concepts.. I doubt he would choose english in his galactic translator if he had a patois option...

[Mosiah]

I get this feeling that for every QC and Rhodes Scholar we have 100 illiterate souls out there who couldn't spell Rhodes or even QC! We need to communicate to them in their (our) language and bring them around to English. It is worth the effort.

[Muadib]

Heh, heh.. yuh tink is American School dem rely pon ??

An Island of English is an account of Danling Fu's work as a literary consultant two days a month at the Dr. Sun Yat Sen Middle School in New York's Chinatown. It is a highly practical book, the main body of which describes how the author worked together with the teachers and administrators of Dr. Sun Yat Sen Middle School to search for effective methods to help reach newly arrived Chinatown immigrant students. The main problems addressed in the book are, how to help students who (a) lack sufficient content knowledge needed for American education; (b) have limited English proficiency; (c) have no parental or adult support at home for their school work; and (d) need to make difficult social, emotional, cultural and academic adjustments to adapt successfully to their new lives in America.

Chapters five and six deal with ESL writing, with chapter 6 focusing on teaching beginning ESL writers and chapter six on intermediate to advanced learners. In chapter five the author advocates getting ESL learners to write from day one and allowing students to write in their L1 or in mixed languages until their English language proficiency develops enough for them to write in English. The author believes that the skills of thinking and organizing ideas are equally important, if not more so, than linguistic skills, and argues that students should be allowed to continue to practice these skills and not have to wait until their language proficiency develops enough for them to be able to write in English. The author also argues that allowing students to write in their L1 when they still have limited English proficiency gives students an extra channel of expression and communication with their teachers and fellow students. Chapter seven discusses how students were introduced to and taught the following different genres of writing: journals, non fiction, poetry, memoir writing and essay writing. The author argues that there is much similarity in teaching writing to native English speakers and ESL students but that ESL teachers have to, among other things, give students more specific directions and writing models and provide more support in helping students to revise and edit their work. [-2-]

Once again, I posit the problem is not trivial and will require open and innovative minds...