Obama tells black fathers to engage their kids

[Gamma]

again i agree with you i-man....even with affirmative action there are some minimum standards, and do not for a minute believe that i am here advocating for that kind of attitude.

that attitude is just as destructive and not trying to obtain the standards.

i won't speak for mosiah but "walk this way" people are people who bask in the "you are so different from them" compliments. people who cannot return to the neighbourhood because they no longer have anything in common with it. mi nuh know if hl is all that....but there are more than a few out there.

how can you be a role model for them if they cannot see you because yuh kissing ass at the country club? by all means join the country club and play golf, if that is what you enjoy....you deserve it.

butt as mlk said "these things did not come without somebody suffering and sacrificing for it".....

[Mosiah]

Excellent point, I-man. Good to make that distinction. When I was in college I was the only "brother" walking around with a tennis racquet. Even Jamaicans were looking on me funny!

The other thing to note is, we do the right things , but so often it's not enuff. So, we walk the way of education, no drugs, responsible relationships, etc., but at the end of the day, to get ahead, we have to walk the way predetermined by chez whitey - don't mention race, turn a blind ear to racist jokes, talk thru your nose for a less threatening sound and whatever else.

As for that attitude displayed by Jamaicans and other Caribbean people, looking down their noses at African Americans, when our experiences are so different. Some of us are now struggling to deal with kids who have become more like them and less like us, and we wonder, how come, how come?!?

[Gamma]

Some of us are now struggling to deal with kids who have become more like them and less like us, and we wonder, how come, how come?!? EXCELLENT observation mo...i know it all too well.

[Mosiah]

• butt as mlk said "these things did not come without somebody suffering and sacrificing for it".....

If only MJ (that would be JORDAN) could realise this.

sigh

[Lazie]

it is connected lazie.....yuh think it just happen to be so? do you?!! and furthermore do think i am HAPPY with this being the state of affairs? again yuh entirely ( maybe not entirely, but a significant protion) miss my point.


do you think black men inherently have a tendency to be a sperm donours since time immemorial? do you think that the cross-section teenage youth in jamaica we no not value life have always had no value for life, neither theirs nor anyone else's?

Maybe I'm missing your point Gamma ... it appears excuses and facts distorting this thread. Mi respect the points yuh put forward ... but ... wait ... explain why absent fathers is a problem among Africans (I'm talking those who aren't desendants of those sold into slavery)?

Wait, I recall reading an article about the absense of fathers is linked to gang crimes in the UK.

I'll be the last to say yes it is innate, but then, I could point to an Obama who didn't have his father around but is trying to be a father to his children.

Regarding your second question ... I've heard Motty talk of a police he interviewed who spoke of some youngster that was at the lock up. He tried to encourage them to be law abiding citizens as if they continued along that path their future may be cut short.

Apparently the youngsters told him that "dem nuh expect fi live fi see 23 suh dem affi live life now." So yes ... dem nuh have no value for life and some of them may have seen this lifestyle growing up .... some juss a follow friend.

[Lazie]

Nice one, Lazie. The argument has taken a turn because wi dun deal wid dat arready. If you didn't grasp it then, then I guess yuh gwine haffi wait till wi discuss race again in a year or two.

But may I suggest, two years from now don't come back wid di same ole lame arguments. Do yourself a favour and reread this entire thread in chrono order. That will put you on solid ground for when we next meet on the subject in 2010.

Cheers!

Really? Gamma and I have been discussing it ... you only got excited about affirmative action.

[Mosiah]

okay, you win. now try and undastan what gamma saying to you.

[Gamma]

I'll be the last to say yes it is innate, but then, I could point to an Obama who didn't have his father around but is trying to be a father to his children. it should be that the biological father is the father figure...but the father figure is just as important so if a grandfather is present the father figure need is satisfied.

clarence thomas' book "my grandfather's son"is exactly about that and shows exactly how that role is fulfilled.

i am saying that great inroads would be made if there was an extended family where there would be a permanent (positive) father figure around. in the absence of a father, a grandfather or step-father is best.

but in many instances there is no grandfather because mother and father didn't know their own fathers thereby perpetuating the cycle. god bless the small percentage who by sheer dint of will-power rise above that. not all persons are created equal...

[Lazie]

I'll be the last to say yes it is innate, but then, I could point to an Obama who didn't have his father around but is trying to be a father to his children. it should be that the biological father is the father figure...but the father figure is just as important so if a grandfather is present the father figure need is satisfied.

clarence thomas' book "my grandfather's son"is exactly about that and shows exactly how that role is fulfilled.

i am saying that great inroads would be made if there was an extended family where there would be a permanent (positive) father figure around. in the absence of a father, a grandfather or step-father is best.

but in many instances there is no grandfather because mother and father didn't know their own fathers thereby perpetuating the cycle. god bless the small percentage who by sheer dint of will-power rise above that. not all persons are created equal...

Get yuh point .... but when these boys become teenagers ... a grandfather nuh have the strength to discipline them and a step father, as soon as them tell him a badwud or mek it clear that, "yuh a nuh mi faadah!" him nuh business nuh more.

Fathers need to start being involved and not turn up when its time fi smady look after dem.

[Gamma]

agreed lazie, but guess what is not about the strength to discipline them necessarily it is about the formative years.....if yuh mek dem run wild as likkle pickney and den try to discipline dem at 8, 9, 10....father or grandfather, strength or no strength ... that battle is all but lost.