BTW Mo, just to be clear on teh dual citizenship thing.

[Muadib]

Yes but this is where it gets wonderfully technical.. as long as she does not 'acknowledge' her citizenship and allegiance she ahright !

LOL !!!

So basically an American spy in Jamaica House is cool as long as he has enough sense not to renew his US Passport and does not sing the Star Spangled Banner in public...

[Willi]

Ah Mo, that is where we differ. She was born in the US, lived in Haiti and became Jakan in 1987. It is HIGHLY unlikey that she never renewed her passport after 18 years of age. After all, she could not have had a Jakan ppt before 1987! She slyly did not answer the question of whether she travelled on her US passport as an adult.

That was my contention all along.

[MdmeX]

interesting point. does she have a us social security number?

But if you have an expired passport issued by the United States Govt., then it means you must have had a Social Security #.

[Karl]

hmmmm that would mean that renunciation is the only cure for that, which is what seaga did, and at that time he would have had the benefit of having the framers of the constitution to guide him......hmmmmmmm

interesting point. does she have a us social security number?

Iffen yuh a citizen, yuh a citizen...passport expire or passport nuh renew nuh tek weh yuh citizenship. Mi nuh tink yuh lose di SS#...hit lef deh...jus a siddun!

[Willi]

By renewing his passport as an adult and then using it, this was judged to being tantamount to pledging allegience. Sounds like a stretch to me, but it's the courts that decide. Gamma can give an educated opinion if this would hold up in the Privy Council.

[MdmeX]

Iffen yuh a citizen, yuh a citizen...passport expire or passport nuh renew nuh tek weh yuh citizenship. Mi nuh tink yuh lose di SS#...hit lef deh...jus a siddun!

A Same suh it guh! Still a citizen of the U.S. - she ongle evading the question.

[Muadib]

Rath mah.. yuh nuh hear mi seh shi cool as long as she nuh admit allegiance !

Spy School 101.. Deny, Deny, Deny.

[Willi]

Iffen yuh a citizen, yuh a citizen...passport expire or passport nuh renew nuh tek weh yuh citizenship. Mi nuh tink yuh lose di SS#...hit lef deh...jus a siddun!

Yes, she may noyt have ACKNOWLEDGED it ever, if she got it from parents as a child or was born there.

This is why people are clamouring for the constitution to be tidied up....whether you are fo or against dual citizens sitting in parliament.

For the record, more sense about this issue has been spoken here than in the media!!!!

[Muadib]

More nonsense tuh...

By the way.. Mosiah, yuh going Cricket ?

[Mosiah]

If Hay Webster have U.S. citizenship, it nuh matter whether or not she renew the passport, she's still a U.S. citizen. FACT or FICTION?

I too can say I'm a Jakan citizen, even though I have an expired passport - nuh suh

Now, I am not Sharon's lawyer, and I don't particularly like the woman, but this is my view with the info in front of me.

The constitution says the person would have to, by his/her own volition or words to that effect, pledge allegiance to the USA, in this case. By virtue of her birth there, she did not attain citizenship by any pledge. The mere fact that she was born there does not mean she has a passport. Passports are generally not handed to new born babies.

So, yes, she is probably still a US citizen (since I have not heard that she renounced it) but not because she pledged any allegiance. She has gone the extra step of applying for a Jamaican passport and has become a citizen.

Now MdmeX, if you have an expired passport, I would ask if that passport has ever been applied for or renewed by you in the past. If the answer is yes, then it matters not if it is now expired, you have already pledged allegaince to a farin power.

I would not have a problem with Sharon having to renounce her US citizenship entirely, as did Seaga, but the constitution right now does not require that she does so.

[Willi]

Not really.

Up until now, the courts had never been asked to decide on the technicality of what constitutes a pledge of allegience (POA). To my mind, it does not seem logical that Vaz was DQed (though I am not shedding tears in his case, LoL). To me, only naturalized adult citizens seem to fit the bill, but the courts are there to interpret and decide.

Now that we have a precedent, it is prudent to set up such a questionaire. Before, it was not practicable.

[Mosiah]

Are you talking about Sharon?

[Mosiah]

Willi, we can only work with the info she has supplied. Perhaps some authority (court, parliament, whatever) should force her to divulge the complete and entire information regarding her citizenship. Other than that, yuh entering into speculation.

Just remember though, for years Americans did not need passports to travel.

[Willi]

But Mo, how she reach Haiti and jamaica iffen she did not have a passport??

Now, I dont know here age, but she did not become Jakan until 1987, so what she was travelling on, goodwill and a smile? Chances are got and travelled on a US PPT as an adult.

[Willi]

She LIVED in Haiti and Jamaica. It is not possible to establish residency without PPTs.

We have a lot of facts already and it not adding up. That is why I am bawling out. No need for speculation, the facts triangulate to a near iron-clad case.