I love broccoli and cauliflower, but it must be cheap

[HL]

Just saw the lively debate below between Assasin, Don1 and Lazie on the refusal of hotels--buying local produce. This is not new.

It is not a politcal issue...it is one of very simple economics.

It is cheaper to import these items from abroad because they are produced more efficiently.

The plight of the small farmer who cultivate his "grung" is also real.

I support the approach that Don1 presented in terms of high levels of investment as the corrective action.. Anything less, will result in the same degree of inefficient local food production.

Inefficient production ironically result in the government finding it more economical to import foods that could be produced locally with new technology.

I could say more but a bettah stap.

[Don1]

Just saw the lively debate below between Assasin, Don1 and Lazie on the refusal of hotels--buying local produce. This is not new.

It is not a politcal issue...it is one of very simple economics.

It is cheaper to import these items from abroad because they are produced more efficiently.

The plight of the small farmer who cultivate his "grung" is also real.

I support the approach that Don1 presented in terms of high levels of investment as the corrective action.. Anything less, will result in the same degree of inefficient local food production.

Inefficient production ironically result in the government finding it more economical to import foods that could be produced locally with new technology.

I could say more but a bettah stap.

spoken like a master.

[Lazie]

HL, addressing efficiency is apart of the program. Was waiting to hear of the farmers attitude to change first .. but since you mentioned it....

"Our most effective response to rising food prices, therefore, must be to produce more of the food we eat. The Ministry of Agriculture has geared itself to lead the way. But, as the Minister pointed out, it has to be more than just producing more. We have to produce it more efficiently so that the consumers can get it more cheaply, while allowing the producers to make a reasonable profit. The old-time way of producing food with the fork and cutlass, praying for rain but praying that it doesn’t come in a flood, scattering the fertilizer and then having to weed out what should not have been fertilized – that kind of farming is not going to be able to produce food cheap enough and in enough quantities to protect us from this global crisis.
That is why this year we will be mounting a strategic initiative to provide support for farmers who are prepared to embrace new technology to improve productivity and product quality. The Minister of Agriculture has already outlined a range of measures that are to be taken to achieve this." (PM).

[Don1]

HL, addressing efficiency is apart of the program. Was waiting to hear of the farmers attitude to change first .. but since you mentioned it....

"Our most effective response to rising food prices, therefore, must be to produce more of the food we eat. The Ministry of Agriculture has geared itself to lead the way. But, as the Minister pointed out, it has to be more than just producing more. We have to produce it more efficiently so that the consumers can get it more cheaply, while allowing the producers to make a reasonable profit. The old-time way of producing food with the fork and cutlass, praying for rain but praying that it doesn’t come in a flood, scattering the fertilizer and then having to weed out what should not have been fertilized – that kind of farming is not going to be able to produce food cheap enough and in enough quantities to protect us from this global crisis.
That is why this year we will be mounting a strategic initiative to provide support for farmers who are prepared to embrace new technology to improve productivity and product quality. The Minister of Agriculture has already outlined a range of measures that are to be taken to achieve this." (PM).

what is this strategic initiative and what are the resources committed to back it?

[HL]

Lazie, i highly respect the position and the valuable contributions you give to this forum.

I pray that the quote from the new PM is just not political chat. (I thought that criminals and gun-man would be running for cover under this new administration).

It is the last sentence of the PM statement that I am most concerned with...

I recall the the motto on my boarding school blazer which read : "Facta non Verba".

Deeds not Words.

[Lazie]

What initiative? The following is taken from the Agri Minister.

"Focus on Protected Agriculture - Greenhouse Clusters
Mr. Speaker, our agricultural sector has been dogged by the failure to consistently produce the quality and quantity of produce required by the end-users. Technology and effective management must, therefore, be used to successfully tap into the growing markets, such as tourism, in order to exploit the natural synergies between these two sectors.

In the recent past, greenhouses, as one form of protected agriculture, have been dotting the agricultural landscape, in a sort of experimental and uncoordinated manner. What these projects have shown us however, are the enormous possibilities in terms of consistent production and higher levels of productivity, in comparison to conventional methods. Mr. Speaker, this Government intends to mainstream this method of production.

Our approach, as I articulated earlier, is to work from the end-users backwards to production. The Government is, therefore, proposing the establishment of Agricultural Clusters primarily, but not exclusively, involving the use of greenhouse technology. These clusters will be driven by end-user demand, and will involve a number of small farmers around a packaging facility. The packaging facility will be private sector-driven, and will be responsible for the sorting, grading, packaging and logistics management, as well as marketing to end-users.

Critically, Mr. Speaker, the Ministry is bolstering its research and extension capacity to provide support to these clusters. In this regard, a Greenhouse Unit is being set up by RADA. As I mentioned earlier, we are providing the requisite training for our researchers and extension personnel, through a number of bilateral programmes in this technology, in countries such as Costa Rica, which has demonstrated success in using the technology.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, very shortly we will be sending the first 13 of our extension officers for training in greenhouse technology in Costa Rica, to support the greenhouse clusters we are developing. Their training will be for one month but the programme of collaboration is being coordinated through a MOU signed by me, on behalf of the Government with the Director General of IICA, during my official visit to Costa Rica recently.

Mr. Speaker, in keeping with our end-user focus, we have also been pursuing discussions with a number of critical consumer groups such as hotel and supermarket operators, as well as agro-processors, in various areas of agricultural best practices.
We have also canvassed a number of private sector players, with a view to their investing in these clusters.

I am pleased to announce that we are now ready to begin the first two greenhouse clusters in the parishes of Manchester and St. Elizabeth, comprising approximately 40 greenhouses, and two packaging facilities.
I am also pleased to announce that we are far advanced in negotiating a grant of CAN$5 million, through the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA). CAN$2 million of this sum will be allocated to support the development of greenhouse clusters. In anticipation of this, the Government has made the appropriate budgetary allocation in the 2008-2009 Estimates of Expenditure.

Mr. Speaker, it is important to note that the Government's initiative in relation to protected agriculture is being complemented by a number of private investors, who on their own, are adopting this method of farming. The Ministry is, therefore, taking steps to ensure that its extension, marketing and research services will provide the appropriate support to sustain this emerging technology.

In an attempt to keep in touch with market requirements, the government is also moving to establish an Agriculture Supplier Advisory Committee, comprising end-user representatives like the Jamaica Hotel & Tourism Association and the Jamaica Chamber of Commerce, along with farmers' representatives, agro-investors and RADA. This committee will meet on a quarterly basis to discuss and sign off on end-user requirements and production processes.

Mr. Speaker, there are currently four main types of fresh produce which are being successfully cultivated in greenhouses in Jamaica; and it is our intention to ensure that our farmers are able to provide all that is required for the local market, with a surplus for export. The crops I am referring to are lettuce, cucumber, tomato and sweet pepper. We want to get to the stage where we achieve food security in these areas quickly. To do this, we are going to make our farmers efficient, and then we are going to protect them from subsidised imports."

[Don1]

What initiative? The following is taken from the Agri Minister.

"Focus on Protected Agriculture - Greenhouse Clusters
Mr. Speaker, our agricultural sector has been dogged by the failure to consistently produce the quality and quantity of produce required by the end-users. Technology and effective management must, therefore, be used to successfully tap into the growing markets, such as tourism, in order to exploit the natural synergies between these two sectors.

In the recent past, greenhouses, as one form of protected agriculture, have been dotting the agricultural landscape, in a sort of experimental and uncoordinated manner. What these projects have shown us however, are the enormous possibilities in terms of consistent production and higher levels of productivity, in comparison to conventional methods. Mr. Speaker, this Government intends to mainstream this method of production.

Our approach, as I articulated earlier, is to work from the end-users backwards to production. The Government is, therefore, proposing the establishment of Agricultural Clusters primarily, but not exclusively, involving the use of greenhouse technology. These clusters will be driven by end-user demand, and will involve a number of small farmers around a packaging facility. The packaging facility will be private sector-driven, and will be responsible for the sorting, grading, packaging and logistics management, as well as marketing to end-users.

Critically, Mr. Speaker, the Ministry is bolstering its research and extension capacity to provide support to these clusters. In this regard, a Greenhouse Unit is being set up by RADA. As I mentioned earlier, we are providing the requisite training for our researchers and extension personnel, through a number of bilateral programmes in this technology, in countries such as Costa Rica, which has demonstrated success in using the technology.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, very shortly we will be sending the first 13 of our extension officers for training in greenhouse technology in Costa Rica, to support the greenhouse clusters we are developing. Their training will be for one month but the programme of collaboration is being coordinated through a MOU signed by me, on behalf of the Government with the Director General of IICA, during my official visit to Costa Rica recently.

Mr. Speaker, in keeping with our end-user focus, we have also been pursuing discussions with a number of critical consumer groups such as hotel and supermarket operators, as well as agro-processors, in various areas of agricultural best practices.
We have also canvassed a number of private sector players, with a view to their investing in these clusters.

I am pleased to announce that we are now ready to begin the first two greenhouse clusters in the parishes of Manchester and St. Elizabeth, comprising approximately 40 greenhouses, and two packaging facilities.
I am also pleased to announce that we are far advanced in negotiating a grant of CAN$5 million, through the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA). CAN$2 million of this sum will be allocated to support the development of greenhouse clusters. In anticipation of this, the Government has made the appropriate budgetary allocation in the 2008-2009 Estimates of Expenditure.

Mr. Speaker, it is important to note that the Government's initiative in relation to protected agriculture is being complemented by a number of private investors, who on their own, are adopting this method of farming. The Ministry is, therefore, taking steps to ensure that its extension, marketing and research services will provide the appropriate support to sustain this emerging technology.

In an attempt to keep in touch with market requirements, the government is also moving to establish an Agriculture Supplier Advisory Committee, comprising end-user representatives like the Jamaica Hotel & Tourism Association and the Jamaica Chamber of Commerce, along with farmers' representatives, agro-investors and RADA. This committee will meet on a quarterly basis to discuss and sign off on end-user requirements and production processes.

Mr. Speaker, there are currently four main types of fresh produce which are being successfully cultivated in greenhouses in Jamaica; and it is our intention to ensure that our farmers are able to provide all that is required for the local market, with a surplus for export. The crops I am referring to are lettuce, cucumber, tomato and sweet pepper. We want to get to the stage where we achieve food security in these areas quickly. To do this, we are going to make our farmers efficient, and then we are going to protect them from subsidised imports."

I guess that's a start even if it's underwhelming... resource constraints no doubt.
One has to look for further and deeper strategic steps to make a significant impact.
Would love to see some timelines and specific production goals for these developments to better determine the progress.

[Assasin]

HL the question is not only about effeciency.

You don't talk about the fact that many US producers are given subsidies in order to produce. Many of these US products can't enter european markets for that simple reason without an import tax. The Europeans even took the US to the WTO on this.

It also comes down to laziness. Instead of building and putting in technology that will help farmers the politicans open import business and give their friends license to flood the market with substandard goods.

Did you realise that at one stage we were producing winter vegetable and exporting it, flowers and exporting it to the US market?

I guess you will drink milk powder instead of cows milk too? Did you read a few years ago where the farmers had to dump cows milk and was trying to give it away for free because the market was flooded with milkpowder.

Can you explain how can Jamaica combat rising food cost without producing?

In a classic market economy you and Don1 are right but there are NO classic economies here.

[Assasin]

HL read carefully

December 3, 2006

Imports Spurring Push to Subsidize Produce

By ALEXEI BARRIONUEVO
FRESNO COUNTY, Calif. — For decades, the fiercely independent fruit and vegetable growers of California, Florida and other states have been the only farmers in America who shunned federal subsidies, delivering produce to the tables of millions of Americans on their own.
But now, in the face of tough new competition primarily from China, even these proud groups are buckling. Produce farmers, their hands newly outstretched, have joined forces for the first time, forming a lobby group intended to pressure politicians over the farm bill to be debated in Congress in January.
Nobody disputes that competitive pressures from abroad are squeezing fruit and vegetable growers, whose garlic, broccoli, lettuce, strawberries and other products are a mainstay of world kitchens. But the issue of whether the United States ought to broaden farm subsidies beyond the commodity crops like corn and cotton, which have historically been protected, is a big flashpoint.
“This is like the tectonic plates of farm policy shifting, because you have a completely new player coming in and demanding money,” said Kenneth A. Cook, president of Environmental Working Group, a research group in Washington that has been critical of farm subsidies, which are mandated by federal laws that date to the Great Depression.
Although some farmers may be suffering, American consumers have been big beneficiaries of cheap food imports. On the United States wholesale market, for example, Chinese garlic costs almost half the price of garlic that is grown domestically.
Existing American farm subsidy policies have been the subject of violent protests outside some World Trade Organization meetings, with detractors calling them an antique way of subsidizing United States farmers at the expense of poorer ones. American fruit and vegetable growers, with their much smaller farms, have never been part of this debate, in part because their crops yielded higher returns, did not need much support, and were never organized around a single policy goal.
But times have changed.
Here in the fertile San Joaquin Valley, Mike Mantelli has seen firsthand the substantial changes forced by the rising tide of Chinese garlic into the United States. As the general manager of the largest American garlic company, Christopher Ranch, he remembers when there were 1,200 acres of garlic planted on a 6,000-acre farm here a decade ago.
Today the company plants less than 300 acres because of lower demand for California garlic, he said.
“The Chinese garlic totally caught us off-guard and knocked us down,” Mr. Mantelli said recently as he checked on newly planted garlic bulbs. “I think our industry has hit rock bottom. Maybe now we can figure out how to make it a level playing field.”
So Mr. Mantelli has joined the coalition of about 75 growers of specialty crops who have united to grab a much bigger slice of the federal subsidy pie.
The group, representing growers of everything from broccoli to strawberries to nuts and flowers and wine, submitted a bill in September asking for what most likely would amount to more than $1 billion for programs they say could help their crops compete better in a tougher global marketplace.
The farmers are not asking for the kind of direct subsidies that have been accused of distorting trade and hurting developing countries’ agricultural industries. Hoping to avoid a nasty battle with powerful farm-state politicians in the Midwest and Southeast, they are asking instead for money to help market their products at home and overseas, as well as for research and conservation.
But whatever money the fruit and vegetable farmers might get would probably have to come out of the allocation that already goes to other sorts of farmers. As things stand, the federal farm subsidy program supplies more than $15 billion a year, primarily to growers of five crops: corn, cotton, rice, wheat and soybeans. Those crops are considered interchangeable commodities and are traded on world markets, unlike fruits and vegetables, which are called specialty crops because their taste and quality are viewed as being highly variable.
While some vegetable and fruit groups have previously requested more funds, they have never before mounted a united challenge. “This is the first time these groups have weighed in with a sense of organization and commitment,” said Clayton Yeutter, a former agriculture secretary and United States trade representative.
The current agriculture secretary, Mike Johanns, looks favorably on the produce growers’ bill. The legislation also has the advantage that the farmers come from states with sizable representation in Congress.
Still, the proposal is likely to face a tough road. There are many other federal budget priorities, and farm experts say there will probably be less money allocated to the farm bill next year than in 2002, when there was a huge increase.
Further, while commodity growers are making courteous noises about the fruit and vegetable farmers’ requests, they have historically enjoyed a near monopoly on federal subsidies.
But fruit and vegetable farmers have been gaining influence. The group’s combined cash receipts of $52.2 billion rival or exceed those of the five major commodity crops, which are expected to generate $52 billion this year.
The produce farmers can also point to the competitive situation. California growers once dominated the garlic industry in the United States, but imports from China and Hong Kong have increased from less than 1 million pounds in 2000 to 112 million pounds last year. This year, for the first time, more Chinese garlic will be sold in the United States than California produces, Commerce Department figures show.
China’s farmers, who are broadly subsidized, have the advantage in that their nation’s currency, the yuan, is tightly regulated to maximize trade opportunities. And the country has a glut of workers for the labor-intensive jobs of growing and harvesting fruits and vegetables.
“Of course consumers are benefiting now,” said Peter Morici, an economist at the University of Maryland business school and a former chief economist at the United States International Trade Commission. “But competition should not be based on subsidies.”
Other specialty crop groups are also struggling with foreign competition, in particular from China, which has geared its agriculture industry towards labor-intensive, higher-value fruits and vegetables. China has begun to dominate everything from apples to onions. Chinese exports have also eaten into American growers’ share of markets in Japan and Hong Kong for items like broccoli and lettuce.
Fruit and vegetable growers have the political advantage of being in states like California, Florida and Arizona, which are likely to be critical in the 2008 presidential election. But it is unclear how important the farm vote will be to the Democrats in the next election.
Under the proposed bill, an overseas marketing program would rise 75 percent, to $350 million a year. An existing specialty crop block-grant program would leap tenfold to $500 million a year. And the government would buy at least $400 million worth of fruits and vegetables annually for school lunch programs.
While the total cost of the proposed bill has yet to be tallied, it will probably reach a few billion dollars, coalition officials said. Whether the fruit and vegetable farmers can win that much will depend in large part on just how much money Congress allocates to farm spending next year.
If the farmers get what they want, consumers could benefit from more information and choice at the grocery store, said Professor Morici of the University of Maryland. At the same time, American growers could become more efficient and competitive.
“Things that help farmers band together and compete are not inherently protectionist or harmful,” Professor Morici said. “It is not an unreasonable thing for a fragmented industry to ask the government for assistance to make the virtues of their industry better known.”
He added, “Whatever money they put for research would benefit the consumer. That would run down their price, and eventually that information would get around the world.”
Mr. Johanns, the agriculture secretary, said in a speech last month that American farm policy needed to be “equitable, predictable and beyond challenge.” Noting the fruit and vegetable farmers’ proposal, he said that farm programs could no longer be decided among a few commodities in a few parts of the country. “That day has changed,” Mr. Johanns said.
The vegetable and fruit growers stood by silently for decades in large part because they did not need government assistance to be successful. While generating close to half of farm receipts, the specialty crops are grown on just 11 million acres of farmland, versus 215 million for the major commodity crops.
In California, new financing could not come soon enough for garlic farms like the Christopher Ranch. The Christophers, fourth-generation farmers in the state, have struggled to hold their market share, and it is not hard to see why: On the wholesale market, Chinese garlic recently cost $15 to $16 for a 30-pound box, compared with $28 for a box of California garlic.
In the late 1990s the Christopher Ranch’s garlic production peaked at about 100 million pounds. Since then sales and acreage have fallen by more than 40 percent. In 2001 China began flooding the market with garlic, after managing to find ways around an import tariff of 377 percent.
As the demand for their garlic has fallen, the Christophers have turned to growing crops like pearl onions and shallots. The family hired a trade lawyer in Washington to try to battle tariff violations. Now they hope that the proposed crop bill will give them a chance to educate consumers and pay for more research into crop diseases.
“We don’t want handouts,” Mr. Mantelli said. “You don’t want to just give people subsidies, because nobody learns from subsidies. But you want to give them opportunities and resources and tools to make their industry better.”

[HL]

Don1, the jamaican government is full of brilliant chatter.

If you notice the context--all that is been said is in the future. (We are going to...we will be, ...we have been persuing....)

Timelines and production goals (milestones), is not a part of the speech, since this would actually force things to happen.

Lets revisit this in 6 months. Lazie could give us a progress report.

[Don1]

HL the question is not only about effeciency.

You don't talk about the fact that many US producers are given subsidies in order to produce. Many of these US products can't enter european markets for that simple reason without an import tax. The Europeans even took the US to the WTO on this.

It also comes down to laziness. Instead of building and putting in technology that will help farmers the politicans open import business and give their friends license to flood the market with substandard goods.

Did you realise that at one stage we were producing winter vegetable and exporting it, flowers and exporting it to the US market?

I guess you will drink milk powder instead of cows milk too? Did you read a few years ago where the farmers had to dump cows milk and was trying to give it away for free because the market was flooded with milkpowder.

Can you explain how can Jamaica combat rising food cost without producing?

In a classic market economy you and Don1 are right but there are NO classic economies here.

Classic or non classic, development rules are the same-

1. viable short term, medium term and strategic plans are required.
2. Appropriate levels and types of investment and management are required.
period.

We have not yet seen an overall strategic plan (some short term measures were indicated without specifics) and a commitment to suitable levels of investment - only time will tell if that's forthcoming.

[Don1]

Don1, the jamaican government is full of brilliant chatter.

If you notice the context--all that is been said is in the future. (We are going to...we will be, ...we have been persuing....)

Timelines and production goals (milestones), is not a part of the speech, since this would actually force things to happen.

Lets revisit this in 6 months. Lazie could give us a progress report.

Totally agree.

Such language will satisfy the naive...... others say "where's the beef?"

Tufton is obviously playing catch up as events are moving faster than whatever his planning profile is .... he has a tough job in this current world and local environment ... I wish him well.

Unfortunately the previous administration did not leave him a strong hand to play as they neglected agricultural reform and investment.

The tourism, energy and works/infrastructure portfolios are in much better shape because of the massive investment and also strategic plans put in place by the previous regime, in my opinion.

I'm willing to wait to see what plans develop.

[Assasin]

I have to agree with you 100 percent there.

There is yet to be a overall plan. The only thing we have is a politically connected JAS, Minister of Agriculture who have no idea about marketing.

Tufton is young and educated, I only hope he can stem the tide but as of now I agree with you 100%.

[Willi]

[/COLOR]

Classic or non classic, development rules are the same-

1. viable short term, medium term and strategic plans are required.
2. Appropriate levels and types of investment and management are required.
period.

We have not yet seen an overall strategic plan (some short term measures were indicated without specifics) and a commitment to suitable levels of investment - only time will tell if that's forthcoming.

There is a problem of overwhelm.

Soooo many fires to fight that they may be neglecting big picture strategy.