From Cuba to JA to.... NYC?

[Don1]

NY to spend over $200 million to install CFL bulbs in private households ... @ $150/ household .... in a situation where many live tightly packed together in large buildings??
Would love to see a breakdown of the per household cost.... and compare that with Jamaica's unit cost of delivery.

I can see Kern as a consultant on this project.




Bright idea for a greener Gotham

by amy zimmer / metro new york


APR 18, 2008

MANHATTAN. More than 5 percent of the city’s population is housed in the New York City Housing Authority’s 2,600 buildings, so NYCHA’s efforts to go green is no small feat. In fact, they could serve a model for a larger citywide effort if Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s long-term sustainability agenda gets re-energized.

Maintenance crews have installed 147,000 compact fluorescent bulbs in 58 Brooklyn developments — for an estimated utility-cost savings of $2.1 million a year.

The authority plans to begin installing CFLs this month in Long Island City’s Queensbridge Houses.

“We are the largest landlord in New York City,” said NYCHA rep Heidi Morales. “If we can prove that making these upgrades and modernizations will bring down energy costs and reduce our CO2 output, the expectation is that other landlords will follow.”

Bloomberg’s PlaNYC envisioned adopting a similar — but vastly more ambitious — CFL program for private residential properties.

Its “direct install program,” would send teams out across the city, offering free replacements of incandescent bulbs for 180,000 apartments a year.

The city estimates it would cost $150 per apartment, for labor and the bulbs, and after eight years would reduce electricity consumption by 1.5 percent. Though the program would cost $216 million, the payback is expected within a few months.

The money, however, would have to come from the state Public Service Authority, and Albany hasn’t seemed eager to enact PlaNYC’s tenets, as the congestion pricing defeat showed.

Waste not, want not

If all homes in the city replaced 75 percent of their bulbs with CFLs, the energy savings would be enough to run all the subways and light all the stations.

[Rockman]

That was what I was alluding to when I asked how much it should cost, can't see getting around that in sunstantiating the allegation of fraud.
Also, JPS(against better judgment) arrogated the right to stipulate people pay their bills on time in order to be issued the free,energy saving bulbs.
Serious question of whether the Courts will ever rule that someone likely will not get a fair trial.





Blessed

[Mosiah]

Kern might have been sent a lifeline!

[Don1]

That was what I was alluding to when I asked how much it should cost, can't see getting around that in sunstantiating the allegation of fraud.
Also, JPS(against better judgment) arrogated the right to stipulate people pay their bills on time in order to be issued the free,energy saving bulbs.
Serious question of whether the Courts will ever rule that someone likely will not get a fair trial.





Blessed

There are two separate (but related) questions:

1. What is a reasonable cost for distributing the bulbs ensuring that they go directly to households and are not diverted.

2. Whether or not there was criminality involved in the bulb distribution - i.e. diversion of state funds for private purposes.

The second question - thankfully the courts will decide.

As to the first question - when people found out (including posters here) that there was a very substantial cost involved in the distribution process- there was an immediate outcry- claiming that the cost was excessive and unjustified (separate from the corruption issue).
Many of those types are enarmored of the US and comfortable with using its business practices as a standard- here they see a US entity wanting to spend $150/household to deliver bulbs vs the Jamaican cost of... what $15/household?? (don't have access to the figures right now to make a good calculation)

Sounds like the Jamaican budgeted cost may have been reasonable... if we adjust the US figures for the relative purchasing power against the Jamaican dollar.

I find that many here, once they become aware of an issue involving expenditure/receipt of public funds- immediately come to an unshakeable opinion regarding that transaction - which opinion is shaped largely by political considerations- if it's their favoured party responsibility - they have no problem.... if it's the other party's responsibility- of course the expenditure is unjustified.
Such types make no attempt to do proper research to find a reasonable basis to come to a conclusion.... the conclusion comes first.

We saw the same phenomenon with the Heathrow slots- opponents of the PNP immediately claimed it was a giveaway and offered other sale of more valuable slots as evidence - turned out to be an apples vs oranges comparison.

Political considerations trump reason and facts with our people... to our great cost.


BTW... if the GOJ allowed JPS to do that.... i'd be astonished... that's insane.

respek

[Don1]

Kern might have been sent a lifeline!

with the budgeted cost yes..... but not if im tief people money!

[Mosiah]

US$150 per household...does that include the cost of the light bulbs? That seems rather high, on the surface, but that's the estimate. Like you said, many protested when they heard how much money was involved, while not examining for a minute what it would cost to distribute the bulbs, because it certainly wasn't going to be 0 dollars!

[Don1]

US$150 per household...does that include the cost of the light bulbs? That seems rather high, on the surface, but that's the estimate. Like you said, many protested when they heard how much money was involved, while not examining for a minute what it would cost to distribute the bulbs, because it certainly wasn't going to be 0 dollars!

yes that includes the cost of the bulbs. I assume with that volume they get a god price say.... $3-4/bulb. Even if they give 10 bulbs/household... the material cost maybe 20% or 25% of the total.

It begs the question... how many New Yorkers does it take to screw in a light bulb? It only takes one mayor to screw New Yorkers.

Then again, maybe they're using Silicon Valley economists to design the program.

[Karl]

yes that includes the cost of the bulbs. I assume with that volume they get a god price say.... $3-4/bulb. Even if they give 10 bulbs/household... the material cost maybe 20% or 25% of the total.

It begs the question... how many New Yorkers does it take to screw in a light bulb? It only takes one mayor to screw New Yorkers.

Then again, maybe they're using Silicon Valley economists to design the program.

Then as I asked Lazie and others about the reasonableness or otherwise of "Kern's expenditure"...so it must be in NY there would be other associated costs as you store, transport and move the bulbs to their final 'resting place'...and associated costs to move the workers around and take care of those workers associated costs (e.g. meals, etc.).

[Muadib]

Heh, heh.

Somebody bring up the commentary regarding Butch definition of a country.

A resident analyst arrived at some rather interesting conclusions, clearly without proper analysis of context.. 'other' considerations trumped reason and facts... the conclusion comes first....

I can hear glass walls shattering...

[Don1]

Bulbenomics

US$150 per household...does that include the cost of the light bulbs? That seems rather high, on the surface, but that's the estimate. Like you said, many protested when they heard how much money was involved, while not examining for a minute what it would cost to distribute the bulbs, because it certainly wasn't going to be 0 dollars!

... had a chance to check the round numbers... and a slow Saturday nite, so:

4m bulbs supplied - project cost approx. $280m = JA$70 or US$1 cost to distribute each bulb.
Bulbs were donated so let's impute a cost of US$3/bulb. Therefore the total project cost per bulb is around US$4 - including distribution, personnel, storage, transport and raw material... and a likkle much fi Kern & Co.

Say 6 bulbs/household = US$24/household = Jamaica cost

That compares with the NY estimate of $150/household (the most significant unknown here is the number of bulbs/household NY will supply.. my guesstimate is 6-10 units).

Let's assume 10 units (to be charitable) : 10 X $3 unit cost = $30 raw material cost/household. Then $120/household would be allocated to personnel, logistics etc.
Another unknown is the actual NY spend- knowing this system as I do - it's guaranteed that the spend/household will be higher- maybe close to $200/household.... let's ignore that probability.
Also with many people living in glorified warehouses in NY with easy access to them ... in contrast to Jamaica's hill, dale & gullybank situation - Jamaica's logistics are relatively more difficult & expensive than NY's.

The more I think about it - this was a really massive logistical exercise! ... a rough equivalent may be a national census or enumeration.... leaving this to a hungry neophyte was a huge management failure by Paulwell and the GOJ.

Taking into account the big disparities in wage rates and the cost of services between the two markets (a calculation beyond the scope of this analysis) the Jamaica BUDGETED cost appears at least reasonable if not economical.

How the program was managed, where the bulbs ended up and where the money was spent is a horse of a different colour.... I suspect we'll soon find out those details.

respek

[Don1]

BTW - the eye opener here is this comparison from my guesstimates:

Jamaica's Budgeted personnel & logistics cost/household - US$1

NY's budgeted personnel & logistics cost/household - US$120


Maybe it's all those Cuban volunteers helping to account for the wide disparity.

[Assasin]

The fact is it was never budgeted to cost so much and the people Kern used were NOT legal contractors on the government bidding list.

How about the missing light bulbs?

New York can do what they want, how many times unnu come pon yah and say unnu can't compare Merica to Jamaica, no only when it suit unnu.

[Mosiah]

But Sass, because some idiot, to suit his own argument might claim that yuh can't compare America to Jamaica, does that mean yuh can't? Nonsense! There is no blanket rule that says you can't compare the two.

I keep saying, you can compare apples and oranges!

[Assasin]

thanks, them a try have it both ways.

I am just pointing out the hypocracy.

[Don1]

Reading comprehension again... aaahh bwoy

]The fact is it was never budgeted to cost so much and the people Kern used were NOT legal contractors on the government bidding list.

How about the missing light bulbs?

New York can do what they want, how many times unnu come pon yah and say unnu can't compare Merica to Jamaica, no only when it suit unnu.

[/COLOR]

If you read and understood my offerings on this issue you would have discerned that:

1. I prefaced the US comparison (the only bulb distribution story I came across) with the statement that some who were critical of the budgeted cost may be comfortable with using US practices as a standard..... this analysis was for their benefit..... plus anyone else who cared to read it.

2. In comparing US figures with Jamaica's I CONSTANTLY pointed out where MARKET differences between the two countries may impact the usefulness of the comparisons and that one has to ADJUST for relative PURCHASING POWER in the two markets.

3. I stated several times that the comparative analysis was limited only to the Jamaican BUDGETED amount and the US BUDGETED amount. I specifically mentioned several times that MANAGEMENT or project OUTCOME issues were NOT my focus - the courts will decide that.... this was merely a STATISTICAL exercise.


Now - you read all the above PROVISOS and CAVEATS in my posts and STILL write the above???

I really can't help you any further on this... I give up.