Chips start to fall but will the other shoe drop?

[Don1]

So Kern get burn and Chin's UMD turns to MUD.

As I thought and stated here some moons ago Bulbgate was what the PNP had to fear in terms of a public scandal blowing up in their face.

Hard as it may be for the individuals involved - this is an excellent example for the youths of the country of the importance of following rules and eschewing the get rich quick mentality.
To paraphrase Busta, that most articulate of leaders, (?) "What's a few years in the slammer in the building of a nation?"
Let the courts decide the fate of the accused. There may yet be hope for them - will the glove fit the hand in the tiller?

Trafigura, (the other shoe) remains in my view, a storm in a teacup unless the foreigners have some damning hard evidence. If they do why are they going there - they certainly wont find much in Jamaica that can't be sent to them by courier.

But sensi, sun, sea, sand and sex are good lures for the Dutch vacationers.

[Comment]

storm in teacup eh. hee hee hee.

UNDA DI JAIL WI A SEND DEM

[Assasin]

them just want confirm things with the PNP.

Is this the first such transaction? The Nigeria oil, is there anything else to it?

It can be bigger than you think.

[Don1]

them just want confirm things with the PNP.

Is this the first such transaction? The Nigeria oil, is there anything else to it?

It can be bigger than you think.

That's just a tad naive. "Confirm things with the PNP?" You honestly think PNP officials are going to incriminate themselves by "confirming things" to foreigners who have no jurisdiction in the country? Get real.

If the Dutch have actionable evidence of law-breaking- it has to come out of Europe. It is of course possible that this exists so I agree that it could be bigger than it appears ... however nothing has been placed in the public domain yet to so indicate.
I tend not to get as excited as some by the mere presence of white foreigners.

If evidence of law breaking existed in Jamaica re Trafigura and was accessible - the authorities there would have been all over it from election day +1.

Just my take on things.

[Assasin]

Don the PNP don't know what the Dutch have. In my opinion Trafigura is already guilty of bribing a government and you never know which whistleblower and what info them have.

The PNP just going to provide basic info to sure up things. Any skill investigator will use info they have to dig deeper.

[Muadib]

Heh,heh.. keep hope alive...

Is like a man dat drop off a 45 story building... as him pass di 10th floor him bawl out "How mi stay !!"

A man ansah.. "Nutting fi worry bout.... yet"

[Karl]

That's just a tad naive. "Confirm things with the PNP?" You honestly think PNP officials are going to incriminate themselves by "confirming things" to foreigners who have no jurisdiction in the country? Get real.

If the Dutch have actionable evidence of law-breaking- it has to come out of Europe. It is of course possible that this exists so I agree that it could be bigger than it appears ... however nothing has been placed in the public domain yet to so indicate.
I tend not to get as excited as some by the mere presence of white foreigners.

If evidence of law breaking existed in Jamaica re Trafigura and was accessible - the authorities there would have been all over it from election day +1.

Just my take on things.

Don1: The facts as presented and reported in our news media are -
a) The Jamaica Government officials (PNPites) of that time presented a case that makes it an illegal Dutch action...but legal in JA.

A gift!

b) The Trafigura officials of that time presented a case that makes it legal in thier country...but illegal in JA.

Business arrangement!

It is in the interest of both sides (PNP and Trafigura officials) to keep the Dutch investigators at bay. The JLP has to make a decision on what cost to the country and possible more importantly to the JLP...in terms of how it is perceived as party/entity to do business.

Let us call a spade a spade - The JLP is in payback mode for the sending of JAG Smith to jail. It is simple - how far does the JLP wish to go in the blood letting?!

...and when a PNP government returns to power, as it surely shall! - (Just as the JLP shall follow on after another PNP government...and so on...) - will the blood letting become something that JA will live with from here on out? ...and will that then...having each party continuous on toes...knowing there shall be hell to pay after being ousted from power...in the final analysis be good for the country?

Corrupt risk takers...grabbers of wealth from the public purse have always been with us...always around...here we are discussing mankind...there is and always will be 'the smoke'...and there shall always be ways to make the risk takers pay!

Yup! JLPites shall play with the 'public purse'...and the opportunity will be there for the PNP...when next it becomes the ruling party...to effect 'jailing'!

[Don1]

Don1: The facts as presented and reported in our news media are -
a) The Jamaica Government officials (PNPites) of that time presented a case that makes it an illegal Dutch action...but legal in JA.

A gift!

b) The Trafigura officials of that time presented a case that makes it legal in thier country...but illegal in JA.

Business arrangement!

It is in the interest of both sides (PNP and Trafigura officials) to keep the Dutch investigators at bay. The JLP has to make a decision on what cost to the country and possible more importantly to the JLP...in terms of how it is perceived as party/entity to do business.

Let us call a spade a spade - The JLP is in payback mode for the sending of JAG Smith to jail. It is simple - how far does the JLP wish to go in the blood letting?!

...and when a PNP government returns to power, as it surely shall! - (Just as the JLP shall follow on after another PNP government...and so on...) - will the blood letting become something that JA will live with from here on out? ...and will that then...having each party continuous on toes...knowing there shall be hell to pay after being ousted from power...in the final analysis be good for the country?

Corrupt risk takers...grabbers of wealth from the public purse have always been with us...always around...here we are discussing mankind...there is and always will be 'the smoke'...and there shall always be ways to make the risk takers pay!

Yup! JLPites shall play with the 'public purse'...and the opportunity will be there for the PNP...when next it becomes the ruling party...to effect 'jailing'!

Interesting views.

I believe an investigation is justified but will ultimately be inconclusive or conclude that no charges can be justifiably brought. There are conflicting jurisdictions at play.
I am not really concerned with cries of unfairness or witch hunting- that's what lawyers are paid to fix and the PNP does not have a shortage there.

It seems to me that Jamaicans acting in Jamaica would be effectively immunized from Dutch legal action especially if their actions are legal in Jamaica or can't be proved to be illegal. Maybe the Dutch can impede the travel of those accused to Amsterdam or perhaps the wider EU in an extreme case. Who knows?

If Trafigura were a US company, the situation would be different as that country believes and acts as if its laws are international statutes binding on others especially those dependent and vulnerable as is Jamaica.

However I am not a member of the lying and cheating fraternity called lawyers so, take all the above with a large grain of salt.

[Don1]

Don the PNP don't know what the Dutch have. In my opinion Trafigura is already guilty of bribing a government and you never know which whistleblower and what info them have.

The PNP just going to provide basic info to sure up things. Any skill investigator will use info they have to dig deeper.

Yes we don't know what we don't know. We can only use supposition based on the scanty facts available. Some combine that with their political leaning and thirst for blood to conjure up doomsday. That's their right.

I'm willing to let time tell and justice be done, but these investigations are essentially healthy developments in my view, whatever the outcomes.

[Karl]

Interesting views.



If Trafigura were a US company, the situation would be different as that country believes and acts as if its laws are international statutes binding on others especially those dependent and vulnerable as is Jamaica.

...and that's a fact!

However I am not a member of the lying and cheating fraternity called lawyers so, take all the above with a large grain of salt.

I have some friends here who may not be pleased!

[Lazie]

Karl, you can chat some 5h!t sometimes its amazing.

"The Jamaica Government officials (PNPites) of that time presented a case that makes it an illegal Dutch action...but legal in JA. "

Since when is bribery legal in Jamaica? Tek a time now man.

JAG Smith broke the law and his ass ended up where he belonged. Why should any of the crooks in the Pimps N Pushers be treated any different? Some mek excuse man.

[Muadib]

Why do you call it bloodletting ?

"Let the Chips fall where they may"

Sounds like chip letting...

If yuh do di crime be prepared to do the time.. or is only fi Ghettos ?

When Babylon get prosecuted fi extortion.. is that blood letting ?

[Gamma]

the dutch government not interested in charging any jamaicans ..... that doesn't mean that their findings are irrelevant.

the dutch investigators can find that trafigura bribed a foreign government, i.e. jamaica...then it will be up to the jamaican government of the day to determine how to deal with it, and corruption charges would NOT be out of the question.....

[Don1]

the dutch government not interested in charging any jamaicans ..... that doesn't mean that their findings are irrelevant.

the dutch investigators can find that trafigura bribed a foreign government, i.e. jamaica...then it will be up to the jamaican government of the day to determine how to deal with it, and corruption charges would NOT be out of the question.....

To be charged for a crime in Jamaica, one has to commit acts which Jamaican law recognizes as criminal.

What the Dutch find may be embarrassing but is unlikely to be proved to be criminal in Jamaica.

Our jurisprudence cannot respond to acts found to be illegal in foreign countries which either are not, or cannot be found to be illegal in Jamaica.

[Don1]

...and that's a fact!



I have some friends here who may not be pleased!

Give thanks that I am here only to please myself!

Selah