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  • Shoot-out Or Murder?

    SHOOT-OUT OR MURDER?


    Francine Black, Staff Reporter

    Residents from Tivoli Gardens direct their anger towards these soilders who stood guard just metres away from the house on Keith Avenue where five men were shot dead in an alleged shoot-out with police yesterday. Many residents argued that the men were murdered. - Rudolph Brown

    Claudine Haughton was in church on Sunday afternoon when her son called her and said he was being shot at and she needed to come quick.

    Her son, Kwesi Cunningham, 24, of Tivoli Gardens, west Kingston, was at a friend's house when he was shot dead. He was one of five men killed during a joint police-military operation in the area. While the police have not released the identities of the other men, THE STAR understands that two of them are Rolland 'Randy' Wellington, 20, and a man known as 'Andre', both of Tivoli Gardens. Nine guns were seized during the operation which was still taking place up to press time.

    "Him call mi and say him inna waan house pin down and bare shot a fire and mi fi come and bring a JP (Justice of the Peace) and a pastor," she said.

    She received that call at 12:30 p.m .when Sunday school ended and immediately left Spanish Town for Tivoli with her daughter, but they arrived too late. "Di last time me talk to him a when wi deh pan Weymouth Drive and him say mi mus hurry up and come," she said.

    Although she and her daughter tried to get to the scene, they were barred by soldiers. She accused the lawmen of assaulting her daughter whom they took away in a police vehicle.

    A confused and weeping Haughton said Cunningham was her first son and second child. After a resident squeezed $100 into her hand to pay her fare, she turned to the news team to find out what she should do next.

    "What I mus' do miss? Weh mi fi go?" she asked. A resident directed her to Madden's Funeral Home.

    Most wanted list

    This woman (centre), a sister of Kwesi Cunningham who was killed in Tivoli Gardens yesterday, weeps after she went inside Madden's Funeral Home to confirm that her brother was among the five men shot dead in an alleged shoot-out with the security forces. - Rudolph Brown

    Later, when there was a mad rush to view the bodies at Madden's, one of Cunningham's sisters confirmed her worst fears and could hardly speak or stand after discovering her brother was truly dead.

    Karl Angell, director of communication for the Jamaica Constabulary Force, said just before noon, police went into the area in search of men on the island's most wanted list when they were met with heavy gunfire. They returned the fire and when it was all over five men were dead and a solider and a police officer were injured.

    Inspector Steve Brown, from the Constabulary Communication Network, said while he was not able to say if any of the dead men were wanted, none of those targeted in the operation were among the dead.

    Residents, upset about the sudden disruption to their lives, claimed the men were murdered. One resident on Keith Avenue, where the shooting occurred, said a joint police military team entered the community around 11:30 am and started firing shots. "Dem just come een and dem say to di pickney dem, unnuh gwaan een and mi lock dem up and a pure shot start fire afterwards," one woman said.

    Residents said soldiers barred them from leaving their homes and tear-gassed those who tried to get on the scene. Some residents also claimed that shots had also been fired from a helicopter circling the community before and after the shoot-out.

    A large contingent of soldiers remained in the area covering every entrance to Tivoli. Angell said they would remain as long as is necessary to ensure calm remains.

    Desmond McKenzie, councillor for the Tivoli Gardens Division, said he was there to ensure that residents respected the officers and that the operation was conducted professionally.
    Last edited by Karl; January 14, 2008, 03:16 PM.


    BLACK LIVES MATTER

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
    Residents said soldiers barred them from leaving their homes and tear-gassed those who tried to get on the scene. Some residents also claimed that shots had also been fired from a helicopter circling the community before and after the shoot-out.
    A large contingent of soldiers remained in the area covering every entrance to Tivoli. Angell said they would remain as long as is necessary to ensure calm remains.
    Desmond McKenzie, councillor for the Tivoli Gardens Division, said he was there to ensure that residents respected the officers and that the operation was conducted professionally.
    Desmond and Orette can help by training the people as to how to behave when an operation like this is taking place. I see people complaining about helicopter hovering over their heads. Well, go inside and you won't have hurricane force winds mess up your weave!


    BLACK LIVES MATTER

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
      Desmond and Orette can help by training the people as to how to behave when an operation like this is taking place. I see people complaining about helicopter hovering over their heads. Well, go inside and you won't have hurricane force winds mess up your weave!
      .. and what about those that stay inside and end up being killed? WHA yuh say KArl? Him was a future bud anyway?
      "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

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      • #4
        Well, like I said in another post, it is time we learn from Braeton that as security officers, you are at distinct advantage when you have surrounded a house inhabited by gunmen. The carpet bombing is unnecessary!


        BLACK LIVES MATTER

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lazie View Post
          .. and what about those that stay inside and end up being killed?
          If you shot at the security forces or you position yourself around those shooting at the security forces...then... it you who have made yourself 'bud'!

          Let's look at it another way, if your 'friends' do not love you enough to not shoot at the security forces while you are near...then...???? ...it is obvious those friends love you enough to care not one fig about your life and...
          Last edited by Karl; January 14, 2008, 04:46 PM.
          "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Karl View Post
            If you shot at the security forces are you position yourself around those shooting at the security forces...then... it you who ahve made yourself 'bud'!

            Let's look at it another way, if your 'friends' do not love you enough to not shoot at the security forces while you are near...then...???? ...it is obvious those friends love you enough to care not one fig about your life and...
            KArl, I'm not talking about those breaking the law. We all meet in Brooklyn for the RSBC picnic. Nobody knows what Mosiah ... naah ... mi naah pick pon him today. None of you know what Lazie been up to. Is it fair for the police to come shooting everybody because you're all in my company? Because I'm stupid enough to shoot at the police, doesn't mean that you should die for my stupidity.

            At this point, some of unuh naah change unuh mind ... well ... I have a problem with the taking of innocent lives and the fact is as long as it continues, the police will never gain the trust of these people.
            "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lazie View Post
              KArl, I'm not talking about those breaking the law. We all meet in Brooklyn for the RSBC picnic. Nobody knows what Mosiah ... naah ... mi naah pick pon him today. None of you know what Lazie been up to. Is it fair for the police to come shooting everybody because you're all in my company? Because I'm stupid enough to shoot at the police, doesn't mean that you should die for my stupidity.

              At this point, some of unuh naah change unuh mind ... well ... I have a problem with the taking of innocent lives and the fact is as long as it continues, the police will never gain the trust of these people.
              Lazie if you are our friend and decide to shoot at the security forces while we are around you...you have just condemned us to be hurt or to die!

              Directly - Shots came from our group....considering the police are human and would like to live (depending on how near they are to us) it is reasonable for them to return fire...and, if we your innocent 'friends' are around you and are taken down... it would be you, not the police, who would have taken us down!

              Yuh talk lacka mad man!

              I can just imagine you standing before a group from which shots are fired at you, with no where to go, and your firearm cluched in your hand calmly taking a barrage of shots to protect innocents in the group...which incidently at the moment you have zero knowledge if they mean you harm...all the while begging those shooting to spare you? Right?

              Unless you think the police should in the interest of protecting 'innocents' when under gunfire attack refrain from returning fire?

              ...or, do you believe the police should ask the gunmen to walk over to a place where bystanders could never be harmed so that they do gun battle? ...and, further you believe the gunmen would comply?

              All I know is if I were a cop and gun fire came at me I would either run away or return fire! Come at me with a gun...and you are 'bud'! Come towards me and you are suspected of having a gun and you do not obey...thus making actions I deem threatening...like Andy Capp I am hitting you back first before you have a chance to hit me.

              Why should the cop be expected to die because the gunman does not obey? Nonsense reasoning!

              A friend of mine...good friend - Stan Strachan -former JDB receiver - tried that silliness with me in his company along East Queen Street. - We are pulled over by the cops and he started to berate them about leaving decent people alone -

              The exchange when something like this - Strachan - "Why you do not leave decent people alone and guh find criminal...etc., etc."?

              Immediately I told the idiot to shut-up and when he went on for another sentence I said, to the cops - "Officers you are doing you work! If you are going to shoot anyone shoot him". Strachan shut-up immediately!

              You may not realise that policemen and women are human and deserve not to be shot at! ...and or impeded in carrying out their duties.

              ..and, btw -only when it is accepted that we all obey the cops...will it become hard for the rogue cops to go around hurting and or murdering us.
              "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, Karl, but our police are still too quick to shoot. If you have a house surrounded we should expect to have many survivors. Some birds get to live too!


                BLACK LIVES MATTER

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
                  Yes, Karl, but our police are still too quick to shoot. If you have a house surrounded we should expect to have many survivors. Some birds get to live too!
                  Sure!
                  Agreed!
                  "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looks like he wanted to surrender. No surrender in Jamaica. If you surrender then you will get shot. This is not good, it means that you are encouraging the gunmen to fight to the last bullet.
                    The same type of thinking that created a problem cannot be used to solve the problem.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There must be some value in taking criminals alive. If our courts have to do some catching up, the govt. must effect that catch up. But a dead criminal is evidence denied. Of course, there are times when that is the only option, but on many occasions, such as Braeton, it's clear that we had other options.


                      BLACK LIVES MATTER

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
                        There must be some value in taking criminals alive. If our courts have to do some catching up, the govt. must effect that catch up. But a dead criminal is evidence denied. Of course, there are times when that is the only option, but on many occasions, such as Braeton, it's clear that we had other options.
                        agree with everything you said... however, it is imperative that the govt do something about the release of suspects charged with serious crimes, as they await trial...

                        this practice is totally unacceptable...

                        it contributes to the witnesses going into hiding and not cooperating with law enforcement...
                        'to get what we've never had, we MUST do what we've never done'

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          perhaps....was he firing back?

                          the irony is that if he is in fact a bad man....he was calling for his mommy when trouble overtook him.

                          i don't know the facts BUT if he was firing on the police then it seems that we know who used to "wash the bloodstained clothes".

                          Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

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                          • #14
                            Don't they always call on Mommy at that time?

                            A tune fi you "Discipline Child" by Jacob "Jakes Miller" or Up Park Camp by John Holt.
                            • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

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                            • #15
                              That's why I said, if the courts need to catch up then they should. Our courts must begin to reflect what's happening out on the streets, i.e., world's highest crime rates and a populace that is shaking with fear. And everything must be considered - courts where jurors are hidden, where witnesses may be hidden to some persons, etc. We can't go on like this.


                              BLACK LIVES MATTER

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