Gun battle in Tivoli - Five killed Policeman, soldier injure

[Gamma]

no man....das why dem deal wid it on the weekend....

[Karl]

suh everbody in tivoli is "un-innocent" in your book?

Your question is based on the premise that everyone in Tivoli associates with the Tivoli gunmen?

I will not accept that! (..and, in my non-acceptance of such a situation you find my response.)

[Gamma]

ok....is it improbable that while in tivoli an innocent could be in the presence of a gunman or gunmen?

[Karl]

ok....is it improbable that while in tivoli an innocent could be in the presence of a gunman or gunmen?

The general statement that an innocent and a gunman could be in each other's presence must have a YES answer!

In fact as a factual matter, given the number of muders and extrapolated in 'guesstimate' of relative numbers carring out those murders and other gun crimes...it must occur every day....and, too often.

...but, we are discussing a specific instance of police action. The question arises on reasons why your innocents would be visiting with the gunmen? Can you give one possible reason that the visit could not have been to 'enhance normal living of the gunmen'?

...or, are you suggesting that those gunmen were not known to be wrong-doers?

[Mosiah]

Karl, the same rules do not and could not apply in a garrison setting. I'll leave it at that.

[MdmeX]

OK!
...the innocents could have gone over to the gun-house to just seh howdie? ...give support?

mmmm???
If so, they are not innocents...but, supporters of gun-men! Assessories to gun-men...believing life goes on as in "it is great being a gunman"! Look we are still enjoying great lives as we take through the gun others lives and material possessions!

'Feeders' of bud!

Karl, you memba what Comrade DK said about the Braeton killing, even him could have been there.

People can be innocent, a nuh everybady who live in the garisson a bad man or bad woman - FACT; and a nuh everybady who live in a ghetto ambitionless!

[Gamma]

karl...in this SPECIFIC instance can you say that they are not innocent!

[Shatta]

nothing beats arguing like hearing the other side of the coin

How about interviewing the residents of tivoli to hear their side of the story or better yet the technology exists to arm them with cameras(cell phones or otherwise) and let them tell their own story.

Wouldn't we all want that?

Lets hear what the children caught in the crossfire have to say as after all if we are a christian nation I am sure we can all agree on "suffer the children to come onto me"

Can we all come to an agreement on the future of our innoncent black boys who are but a victim of circumstances or are we still blinded by our political, religious or ideological beliefs?

Whats more important than our children

[Exile]

Cameras? Yu a joke. Yu can't just pull out dem tin deh...too much wanted man.

[Karl]

Karl, you memba what Comrade DK said about the Braeton killing, even him could have been there.

People can be innocent, a nuh everybady who live in the garisson a bad man or bad woman - FACT; and a nuh everybady who live in a ghetto ambitionless!

Agree 100%...
...that is why the innocent MUST bring pressure such that no possibility of being in the line of fire occurs!

Persons in Tivoli and in all other garrisons there are persons, who know the and or give succor to gun-criminals! They put themselves and their neighbours at risk of inadvertent harm or death or worse!

[Mosiah]

I asked my Tivoli bredren what happened yesterday. I asked, do you know if the guys killed were involved in anything? The reply was no. They ran from the police and went inside this house. He told me that all but one had guns but they were only returning the fire. I asked again, how come you say that they weren't badmen yet they had guns? Don't remember getting an answer for that, but it would seem to me that even good people have guns in Tivoli. Karl should be pleased. If yuh have a gun, you can't be good and in the eyes of the security forces you are a bud.

My friend told me that an innocent man did miraculously escape from the house. He was unarmed.

I don't know exactly what happened but can we apprehend a houseful of people without anyone dying? How difficult can that be?

[Karl]

karl...in this SPECIFIC instance can you say that they are not innocent!

Serious question!
How can/could I? I knew not the minds of those dead!
I wonder what was the reason(s) for the visits to the gunmen?

[Gamma]

ok...because yuh was going on like seh they are not innocent, i figured you knew something!

[Baddaz]

funny... i say that because, how would your friend know if those killed were really involved in anything... they had guns... if they are in tivoli, where nothing happens, why the need to pack... and, if the police/military fired on them, why were they returning fire... sounds like a cowboy movie...

mo, good people don't have guns in tivoli... i know you know that, but there are limits to any conversation with anyone in a garrrison, friend or foe...

mo, if the houseful of people dont threaten the police, there can be apprehension without death...

any youth with a gun in a garrison, who is not a friend or colleague is to be perceived as threat...

[MdmeX]

Karl - is Jamaica we dealing wid! Do you realize that people are afraid of giving info to the police - because them turn around and tell the gunman; then b4 yuh know it, yuh whole family wipe out. A degree of trust has to be first established, b4 anybody gwine inform pon dem neighbour.