Gun battle in Tivoli - Five killed Policeman, soldier injure

[Sickko]

Gun battle in Tivoli - Five killed Policeman, soldier injured Nine weapons found
published: Monday | January 14, 2008

Howard Campbell, Gleaner Writer

A resident of Zacky Avenue in Tivoli Gardens reacts to the police/military operation there yesterday. Five men were killed in an alleged shoot-out with the security forces. - Rudolph Brown/Chief Photographer
FIVE MEN were killed in a house on Keith Avenue in the western Kingston community of Tivoli Gardens yesterday in what the police said was a shoot-out with a police/military team.
One soldier and a policeman were also shot and injured in the incident which residents say started about 11:00 a.m.
Following the shooting, the police reported that five guns were recovered from the men. However, later in the evening, they said another four guns were subsequently found in the community.
Among the weapons recovered were shotguns, assault rifles and revolvers.
At press time, two of the dead men were identified as 24-year-old Kwesi Cunningham and 20-year-old Roland Mitchell, also known as Randy, both from west Kingston.
After the midday shooting, angry residents blocked several roads claiming the men were murdered. They also complained that soldiers in a Jamaica Defence Force helicopter discharged tear gas into the community.
Inspector Steve Brown of Operation Kingfish said the security forces were met with gunfire as they searched for the wanted men.
He also admitted innocent persons may have been killed in the firefight.
Mayor of Kingston, Desmond McKenzie, who is also councillor for the Tivoli Gardens division, told The Gleaner that he arrived in the community shortly after the shooting.
"We just want to ensure that the thing is done in a professional way," Mr. McKenzie said.
At the nearby Madden's Funeral Home in Hannah Town, a boisterous crowd gathered to view the bodies of the dead men.
Many of them were anxious to see if their relatives, or friends, were among the deceased.
Karlene Hall, trembling and sobbing uncontrollably, made her way from Tivoli Gardens to the funeral parlour where her worst fears were confirmed. Her son, Kwesi, was among the five men killed.
She said her daughter told her that Cunningham was inside the house at Keith Avenue when the shooting occured.
The death of Ms. Hall's second child came almost one year after her two younger sons, 10-year-old Ikel Henry and seven-year-old Shadder Henry, drowned in the Rio Cobre River in St. Catherine.
Yesterday, the Opposition Spokesman on National Security, Dr. Peter Phillips, came out in support of members of the security forces.
"It is important to the stability of our democracy and for the survival of our country that members of security forces are able to conduct their lawful activities in any part of the country without fear or favour, or without the interference of anyone," Dr. Phillips.
Yesterday's incident was the latest in a series of controversial confrontations in West Kingston between security forces and alleged gunmen from Tivoli Gardens.
The most infamous took place in 1997 and 2001. In the latter, 27 persons were killed in a three-day standoff. In October 2005, Rear Admiral Hardley Lewin, then head of the JDF, described Tivoli Gardens as 'the mother of all garrisons'. He made the comment after a joint police/military operation in that community in which four persons were shot and injured.

[Mosiah]

Deadly raid on Tivoli
Five men shot dead; cop, soldier injuredBY VAUGHN DAVIS Observer staff reporter davisv@jamaicaobserver.com
Monday, January 14, 2008


Five men were shot dead by members of the security forces while a soldier and a policeman were injured in what the police said was a firefight with gunmen in Tivoli Gardens yesterday.
At the same time, the police reported that they seized nine illegal guns from the community, triggering comments from crime watchers last night that this was probably the biggest ever gun find in Tivoli, an area normally perceived as being heavily armed.
Heavily armed police and Jamaica Defence Force soldiers patrol a section of McKenzie Drive in Tivoli Gardens as they search for wanted men during yesterday's joint police/military raid in the area. (Photo: Bryan Cummings)
Up to press time last night, the police had not released the identities of the five men killed. Neither did they name the injured cop and soldier, offering only that they were receiving treatment in hospital. It was not immediately clear what condition they were in.
"The operation started just before midday today, we came into the area in search of wanted men, including some of those on the police most wanted list," said police spokesman Inspector Steve Brown. "And upon approaching one of the communities we came under gunfire from a group of men. That triggered a gun battle between the security forces and the gunmen.
Two members of the security forces have been shot and wounded .five gunmen were also shot and killed. We also seized illegal firearms and a quantity of ammunition."
Several armed members of the Jamaica Defence Force take up strategic positions along a section of Industrial Terrace in Tivoli Gardens during the joint military/police operation in the area yesterday. Photos: Bryan Cummings
The operation, he said, was ongoing "as we intend to get the men who we came for".
Brown said he could not say whether the men the police went in search of were among the five killed. He also said a number of men were detained, although he could not give an exact number.
"I cannot give you the quantity now because of processing, but as soon as they are processed they will be released, I am almost certain about that," he added.
Brown also declined to divulge the names of the men the police were looking for.
Asked to address a rumour that the raid was conducted specifically to flush out members of the Montego Bay-based Stone Crusher Gang, Brown was very evasive in his response.
"If you get the rumour on the ground, then the rumour on the ground must come from the people," he said. "If they told you we are searching for members of the Stone Crusher Gang, then it could well mean that members of that gang are here, but what we are telling you is that we are searching for wanted men in the community."
Tivoli Gardens, a community that is fiercely loyal to the Jamaica Labour Party (JLP), has been the focus of a number of police raids over the past 10 years, with the most memorable being that of July 7, 2001 when 27 people, including a policeman and a soldier, were shot dead.
At the time, its political representative, Edward Seaga, claimed that the violence was orchestrated by the then ruling People's National Party (PNP) to rekindle the perception of Tivoli as a violence-riddled community, thereby painting Seaga as a man of violence and not fit to lead Jamaica.
Yesterday, however, there were no shrill protests of political motivation from the JLP, as Desmond McKenzie, the mayor of Kingston and the JLP councillor for the Tivoli Gardens Division in the Kingston and St Andrew Corporation, said the raid was carried out in a professional manner.
"I would say that the security forces in part conducted themselves in a professional way," McKenzie said. "It is unfortunate that persons have lost their lives, but we support the work of the security forces as long as it is done in a professional manner and the rights of the residents are respected. And in this case there were one and two isolated incidents of abuse by some members but I can't say they acted unprofessionally."
He said, too, that some residents complained that their homes were vandalised by members of the security forces. "Persons have lost personal belongings. We have in fact made contact with the police high command and have learned that an effort is being made to investigate the circumstances under which the things were removed from the homes in question," McKenzie said.
He also told the Observer that despite the loss of five lives, the presence of Bruce Golding, the prime minister and member of parliament for West Kingston - in which Tivoli Gardens is located - was not yet necessary.
"I don't think this would necessitate the prime minister coming down here," McKenzie said. "As the councillor for the area I think I am probably capable enough to deal with what is happening on the ground."
Last night, Opposition spokesman on national security Dr Peter Phillips voiced his support for the security forces involved in yesterday's operation, while expressing sympathy to the policeman and soldier who were injured.
Phillips also urged the citizens of West Kingston to support the security forces in their attempt to restore order in the communities affected by the operation.

[Yuttie]

man, it look laka you and Gleaner still ina bed....wha kinda spy business dis?

[Karl]

Gun battle in Tivoli - Five killed Policeman, soldier injured Nine weapons found
published: Monday | January 14, 2008

Howard Campbell, Gleaner Writer

A resident of Zacky Avenue in Tivoli Gardens reacts to the police/military operation there yesterday. Five men were killed in an alleged shoot-out with the security forces. - Rudolph Brown/Chief Photographer

FIVE MEN were killed in a house on Keith Avenue in the western Kingston community of Tivoli Gardens yesterday in what the police said was a shoot-out with a police/military team.

One soldier and a policeman were also shot and injured in the incident which residents say started about 11:00 a.m.

Following the shooting, the police reported that five guns were recovered from the men.

----->

Inspector Steve Brown of Operation Kingfish said the security forces were met with gunfire as they searched for the wanted men.

He also admitted innocent persons may have been killed in the firefight.

I can understand how 'innocents' (those who do not carry guns and or do not take part in actual gun crimes) could be associating with gun criminals...

...but, that association gives 'meaning to the lives' of the gun criminals...the question therefore arises; Are the 'innocents' innocent?

My answer would be based on the premise that you should not and cannot give succor to the gun criminals. - Such that give succor are not innocent!

Shun the gun criminals! Ostracize them! There must be no resting place for gun criminals! Let us take back...return JA to tranquil and safe isle it once was!

[Lazie]

Innocent persons? Wait ... suh it wasn't 5 gunmen?

[Karl]

Innocent persons? Wait ... suh it wasn't 5 gunmen?

Exactly what is meant by "innocents"?
Having no connection with those who carry out gun crimes?

...or...

...have never of themselves carried out gun crimes but benefit from these crimes?

...or...

...some other described interpretation of what is meant by 'innocent'?

[Exile]

Karl, sometimes it's rough not to mix esp. in small confined communities...smtimes it's survival, wrong place, wrong time.

[Exile]

Innocent: like yu go shop fi buy flour and 3 gunman a buy weed and driveby shot up de place - Headline:"4 dead, 3 gunman, 1 innocent".

[Lazie]

Exactly what is meant by "innocents"?
Having no connection with those who carry out gun crimes?

...or...

...have never of themselves carried out gun crimes but benefit from these crimes?

...or...

...some other described interpretation of what is meant by 'innocent'?

... and I'm accused of spinning. Ask the police spokesperson what is meant by innocent nuh?

[Karl]

Innocent: like yu go shop fi buy flour and 3 gunman a buy weed and driveby shot up de place - Headline:"4 dead, 3 gunman, 1 innocent".

OK!
...the innocents could have gone over to the gun-house to just seh howdie? ...give support?

mmmm???
If so, they are not innocents...but, supporters of gun-men! Assessories to gun-men...believing life goes on as in "it is great being a gunman"! Look we are still enjoying great lives as we take through the gun others lives and material possessions!

'Feeders' of bud!

[Gamma]

suh everbody in tivoli is "un-innocent" in your book?

[Karl]

Dissecting independence, governance and corruption

By Wilberne Persaud, Financial Gleaner Columnist

Enthusiastic feedback indicates the column on developmental governance struck a reverberating chord. No one thought the subject misplaced in the Financial Gleaner.

One Washington reader notifies me: "... what you have to comprehend is ... no matter what you do, no matter what you say, until the day you run your own banks, print your own money, and have your own military (for your Jamaica Defence Force troops swear to protect 'Elizabeth'), you are nothing but a mining colony for the British empire and its surrogate American colonies."

I replied: "We still swear to protect "Elizabeth". Do you mean to suggest by this that when we cease so to do, and add the other features - banks, money etc., we will indeed be ''independent'?

I am not sure really. The powerful United States of America is not as 'independent' as one would think.

Though the U.S. certainly can, should Bush simply nuke Iraq or Iran, etc. - perhaps he actually dreams of doing that. Or is it that even though it is the world's lone superpower, U.S. freedom of independent action is circumscribed by other variables which it is not always able to control.

POLITICAL INDEPENDENCE
Jamaica and other post-colonial societies enjoy political independence. Indeed, many of them do have some of the things you speak of: their own money, which may well be not an unadulterated blessing; and armies, some of which do not swear allegiance to 'Elizabeth'.

This powerfully circumscribed or limited 'independence' is to a great degree reduced by their own actions.

If we govern ourselves properly we could reduce our level of dependence. On the International Monetary Fund, on United States Agency for International Development for cornmeal, on Canada for sardines. It is precisely because we do not govern ourselves well, and behave in ways that enhance individuals' and a few companies' material prospects in life, that we are led into the trap of continued erosion, even of the limited degree of freedom that we could enjoy.

We cannot simply see ourselves as victims of imperialism, colonialism, exploitation. Yes, we have been and in many ways still are victims. Reparations are due for slavery. Regardless, it does seem to me that we are to blame for a large part of the lack of independence we face.

Chávez may be attempting to exert his independence. I am happy about this, even though he may well be going about it in ways that will deny him success.

Caribbean nationalist, anti-imperialist, true believer in the United Nations Charter of Human Rights regardless, it is we, human actors, that must give life to these high ideals.

Corruption and choice of what appears to be the least difficult way to 'eat a food' is a surefire way to continued bondage. And by the way, we in Jamaica did create our own banks. But greed, corruption, social inferiority embedded in the psyches of many, expressed by status ascription based on conspicuous consumption and of course criminality, destroyed them, and retarded the peoples' fortunes for decades which left the yet unborn with a hell of a mortgage to pay.

SILENCE MEANS CONSENT
The other more animated reader comment I feel obliged to share is edited. Entitled: "Is Jamaica one large criminal country? What does the evidence show?" this reader feels "Jamaicans hate to face the source of problems and believe that they do not have to pay the real price for progress as they build on their fascination with dialogue." He adduces evidence: "Highest rate of mob 'justice' killings of any democratic country in the world - 19 last year. There has never been a national call from any Prime Minister or Minister of Justice for the arrest of these mob murderers. Silence is agreement."

He blames the "80 per cent out-of-wedlock birth rate, immorality and mistrust in personal lives that parallel our high rate of political corruption."

For him, extortion is "accepted as a way of life: one deceased criminal had a J$100 million business minutes from a major police station. When he was killed, riots and demonstrations shut down the former capital as the 'law abiding citizens" who call politicians corrupt supported him."

He is concerned about purposely under-scrutinised contributions to political parties, the citizenry that commonly refers to politicians as corrupticians! Agreeing that these 'governmental corrupticians' are not aliens but Jamaican citizens, he concludes: "A corrupt people form a corrupt government. Period. If the citizenry were not corrupt, their government would not be corrupt."

We must attend to these concerns whether they are views widely held or even of remote validity. As Archbishop Tutu might say, truth, so often awkward, is, alas, liberating.

email: wilbe65@yahoo.com

---------------

So why this article here?

Perhaps, I did not go further than "A corrupt people form a corrupt government. Period. If the citizenry were not corrupt, their government would not be corrupt." ---->

"A corrupt people form a corrupt government. Period. If the citizenry were not corrupt...if the gun men who are corrupt...where not given succor...if no gunman or would be gunman was given succor...there would be no gunmen? ...there would not be that type of corruption?

...then, what then should we make of those who associate with and provide "semblance of normality" (...because it is not "normal") ...to these gunmen? ...corrupt associates? ...assessories of the gunmen? "Stockholm syndrome bonding with gunmen" - 'gunmen' without guns? Well what does the rest of society do? Attempt to separate the gunmen from the lovers of/those bonding with the gunmen?

[Mosiah]

Oh boy. I was wondering how long it was going to take for the foolishness.

[Mosiah]

Do you know? You don't! So keep quiet and stop trying to fan the flames of ignorance.

[Bricktop]

This is a tragedy suppose PASSA PASSA is cancelled this Wednesday?