Air J and Virgin side deal

[Don1]

Well I just wanted to know how you come to that conculsion cause it has no support anywhere, Virgin said it was a done deal.

Bredrin, no one here knows the details of the negotiations. We can only speculate based on news reports. Statements from Virgin are subject to suspicion of being self-serving, they are not gospel to be accepted uncritically in my view.

I can accept that I have a particular opinion that it's probable that the Miami issue was already an item on the table and not new (because the agreement was wrapped up quickly and significant new items probably would require time to study) and you looking at the same report come to a different opinion. I can accept the difference in opinion and am open to correction by someone with credible insider info. Let's agree to disagree on this.

Jamaica does not, unfortunately, have a history of independent investigative journalism so we are all reduced to parsing whatever releases are issued by entities in the news.

Whatever investigative journalism exists in Jamaica, the reportage is always suspect (of being subservient to powerful interests) because of the extremely narrow ownership base of the media and the overwhelming power of 2 or 3 media bosses over the livelihood of journalists.

[Assasin]

could the answer lie in you supporting one side? You as I am not sure but you came to the opinion that is was in the works. That hard fi me to swallow brethren, if either Virgin, Davis or the PNP in any way hinted at this I would have buy it but none none did. It seems like it was something the exclusive properties in Ja wanted since many of their European clients come this way. It seems the bredda from Roundhill was instrumental in this deal.

[Don1]

could the answer lie in you supporting one side? You as I am not sure but you came to the opinion that is was in the works. That hard fi me to swallow brethren, if either Virgin, Davis or the PNP in any way hinted at this I would have buy it but none none did. It seems like it was something the exclusive properties in Ja wanted since many of their European clients come this way. It seems the bredda from Roundhill was instrumental in this deal.

What the f--- do I care who had the idea of a Miami connection? This does nothing for me, believe it. I support no side except getting the best deal for the country. If Bruce's team originated that benefit.... praises to them.

I am aware how negotiations are done at this level. When you are negotiating something significant, do you go to the press with every detail or hint at this or that? No you don't. So the absence of prior hints from Davis or Virgin is meaningless.

I do know it takes time to negotiate significant new items and would agree that hoteliers generating clients out of Heathrow would favor a Miami connection.
Don't you think those same hoteliers would have been consulted and their views known prior to Golding taking charge? It's only reasonable that it's is so as we heard no claim of them being shut out. So it is also reasonable to assume that some accommodation was being sought for them.

[Muadib]

Stop talking out of your a$$.

At least do some basic research on Branson alternative-energy commitments..

[Assasin]

The hoteliers and tourism interest were the first ones to come out against the deal and said it would affect their clients.

All I know they were the ones who were influencial in the side deal and that is the fact.

[Willi]

You kinda lost me with this response.

Virgin slaps us in the face with the Barbados announcement and Bruce responds by slapping Mike publicly??? This does not compute. If you mean something else break it down for me.
I actually agree with Mike being all over this issue. He was just too immature in his approach. That's fine when you're on the Opposition side but not when you hold power.

It's possible that Golding/Wehby/whoever originated and negotiated the Miami connection but more likely in my view that it was already on the table due to the very compressed time scale within which the new administration concluded the deal.
Either way it's a logical step that benefits both parties and if the country benefits.... praises.

I regard the "energy consultations" as a red herring/PR/feel good gambit with nothing behind it. Branson has an interest in pursuing energy projects but has no energy business or expertise as far as I know. He wants to fuel aircraft with what...... methane from cow dung or something??

Then Bartlett and Mike get livid, then Branson comes with goodies and then Bruce meets with him and the deal terms get sweetened, and then Mike gets slapped.

[Karl]

could the answer lie in you supporting one side? You as I am not sure but you came to the opinion that is was in the works. That hard fi me to swallow brethren, if either Virgin, Davis or the PNP in any way hinted at this I would have buy it but none none did. It seems like it was something the exclusive properties in Ja wanted since many of their European clients come this way. It seems the bredda from Roundhill was instrumental in this deal.

Why couldn't it be that this was one of two or more options on the table and it was a matter of coming to a meeting of the minds on what option and or options with a little give and take that could be mutually agreed?

Sass sometimes you limit yourself...your thinking on range of possibilities on matters. Boss you have always argued pro-JLP. Don1 seems to argue the pro-PNP line. Me? I am often pro-PNP...more often that I am for pro-JLP.

This AirJ/Virgin deal we know was not concluded when the PNP left office...so we know for fact that there was something on the table to be wrapped up.

Hell we are not even sure the deal is completely wrapped up. What we do know has come out in 'dribbles'. More to come? Your guess is as good as mine...but, my guess is 'more to come'! Too many loose ends hanging about!

[Assasin]

mi nah argue pro JLP but with the facts in the public domain and nowhere have I seen where the PNP iniated this for someone to conclude that it was a part of the deal.

[Karl]

mi nah argue pro JLP but with the facts in the public domain and nowhere have I seen where the PNP iniated this for someone to conclude that it was a part of the deal.

OK!
... then tell us what part of the deal...the negotiations was still on-going when the PNP left office?

[Assasin]

if it was ungoing then how comes Virgin get the slots? It was a done deal or else the JLP would have squashed it.

Would you give away your property and negociate after? would the negociations be concluded first?

[Karl]

if it was ungoing then how comes Virgin get the slots? It was a done deal or else the JLP would have squashed it.

e.g. code sharing attachment was not settled -


http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...s_branson_.asp

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...now_sealed.asp

...and, the slots (all slots as Willi earlier also acknowledged) were not yet settled ---->

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glean...cleisure3.html

June 2007 - Mike Henry said -

According to Henry, "Since a Memorandum of Understanding had been established and the matter of the sale not entirely finalised, the Government should revisit the proposeddeal before any final signing off is done."

The loss-making carrier has been in the public spotlight since the announcement last month by the airline's management that it would be selling its slots to British-based Virgin Atlantic. Air Jamaica's airline executive cited substantial increases in fuel prices, along with the impact on fares owing to additional schedule and charter flights as reasons for cutting the route, which had been unprofitable, with the company losing US$27 million (J$1.8 billion) in 2006, which was projected to rise to US$30 billion in 2007.


Gleaner - Sunday, 10 June 2007

The matter of the magnitude of the losses and the expected worsening of those loses were aired.

...and, those who wish to 'poo-poo' the deal with Virgin Atlantic may wish to take a look at the plusses this writer sees ---->

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glean...cleisure2.html

...it is also important to note that Virgin Atlantc claims of

"About a year and a half ago we heard that British Airways was going to take over the (Air Jamaica) slots and if that had happened it would have meant Virgin Atlantic pulling out of Jamaica which would have left British Airways completely dominant in Jamaica," he said.
"We contacted the government and said we would pay more than British Airways."

[Assasin]

do one thing for me and explain "SIDE DEAL" if it was a part of the original deal.

[Karl]

do one thing for me and explain "SIDE DEAL" if it was a part of the original deal.

As used by me - not main issue...but, an important one without which the entire would not be as hoped for....may be an addendum or a rider which explains something of the order that by itself makes it clear that 'without this addendum or side-deal the enter deal collapses'.

Like you are buying property and the contract is "subject to a certain occurance and or stipulation". That occurance and or stipulation not executed there is no contract.

[Don1]

Then Bartlett and Mike get livid, then Branson comes with goodies and then Bruce meets with him and the deal terms get sweetened, and then Mike gets slapped.

I guess that is a spin that could be put on the matter. It was all a grand negotiating strategy. Flat bridge is still available for purchase if you're interested.

Do you really regard an agreement to arrange connections through Miami as goodies? This just means that they will synchronize arrivals & departures at that gateway. No new seats into Jamaica.

Yes it facilitates some existing business into the country but it's really nothing to get excited about.

[Don1]

The hoteliers and tourism interest were the first ones to come out against the deal and said it would affect their clients.

All I know they were the ones who were influencial in the side deal and that is the fact.

You seem to have some special insider info so I will defer to you regarding the genesis of this wonderful "side deal".