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Tim Vickery column
By Tim Vickery
South American football reporter
As the club game takes a brief rest and the focus switches to international football, there will be some head scratching and a worried post-mortem taking place at the CBF, Brazil's FA.
Going into 2005, Brazil were the unchallenged kings of the global game.
They had swept the board - world champions at senior, Under-20 and Under-17 levels.
The 2006 World Cup was a wake-up call for the Brazilian authorities
Ronaldo and company had taken them to their fifth World Cup win in 2002, and the two junior titles were acquired the following year.
It was a remarkable achievement and one which, in such a competitive activity, was probably impossible to sustain.
Nevertheless, Brazil's football bureaucrats could hardly have suspected that by September 2007 they would seem to have slipped so far back.
The senior side's challenge for World Cup win number six came unstuck against France in the quarter-finals last year in Germany - but then trying to claim the title on European soil has always been the ultimate challenge for a South American side. More worrying is what has happened with the junior teams. Both titles were relinquished in 2005 - but at least the sides put up a good fight. The 2005 Under-20s were not a vintage crop - but they were rugged, difficult to beat and fought their way to the semi-finals.
The Under-17s were more inspirational. Including Anderson, now of Manchester United, they went all the way to the final before going down to Mexico.
This year though, the Brazilian youngsters didn't come within a sniff of a title.
In Canada, the Under-20s went out to Spain in the second round after extraordinarily losing three of their four matches.
In Korea, the Under-17s started off like a train, with huge wins over New Zealand and North Korea.
But then they lost tight matches against England and Ghana and they too were out in the second round.
So both Brazil youth teams failed to even reach the quarter-finals.
In one sense this might not matter too much. The driving force behind all youth football should be the aim of developing players rather than winning cups.
Alexandre Pato has been one of Brazil's success stories
And some very promising Brazilian youngsters - the likes of Under-20 striker Alexandre Pato and Under-17 left-back Fabio - have picked up some terrific experience.
But this will come as small consolation for many in the Brazilian FA.
Whatever the level of the game, every time Brazil take the field the prestige of their football is considered to be at stake.
Brazil's youth team coaches and back-up staff see no contradiction between developing players and winning trophies - for them the two aims go together.
Their detailed planning and preparation were drawn up in the hope of coming back with the trophy.
The interesting thing is that within their own continent it worked.
Both Brazil's Under-20s and the Under-17s qualified as champions of South America - and were then unable to sustain their supremacy in their respective World Cup competition.
Trying to impose a pattern onto something as capricious as football results is a hazardous business.
But perhaps one possible explanation can be found in the methodology Brazil have followed in recent years.
Scared by the rise of the rise of the northern European game in the 60s and 70s - 'force football' as it was termed in Brazil - they sought to bulk up.
Until recently former left-back Branco was co-ordinating Brazil's youth sides.
He told me that right from the start of the process he and his team were looking for big, strong players.
The idea was that if they could match the Europeans in physical terms, their technical advantage would tip the balance.
The project has been very successful, though it could be argued that the aesthetic quality of their play has fallen as a consequence.
But maybe the point has now been reached where Brazil's youth teams have a physical, and especially aerial, advantage against their South American neighbours. But they no longer have a sufficient technical advantage over the biggest and best sides from the rest of the world.
By Tim Vickery South American football reporter
As the club game takes a brief rest and the focus switches to international football, there will be some head scratching and a worried post-mortem taking place at the CBF, Brazil's FA.
Going into 2005, Brazil were the unchallenged kings of the global game.
They had swept the board - world champions at senior, Under-20 and Under-17 levels.
The 2006 World Cup was a wake-up call for the Brazilian authorities
Ronaldo and company had taken them to their fifth World Cup win in 2002, and the two junior titles were acquired the following year.
It was a remarkable achievement and one which, in such a competitive activity, was probably impossible to sustain.
Nevertheless, Brazil's football bureaucrats could hardly have suspected that by September 2007 they would seem to have slipped so far back.
The senior side's challenge for World Cup win number six came unstuck against France in the quarter-finals last year in Germany - but then trying to claim the title on European soil has always been the ultimate challenge for a South American side. More worrying is what has happened with the junior teams. Both titles were relinquished in 2005 - but at least the sides put up a good fight. The 2005 Under-20s were not a vintage crop - but they were rugged, difficult to beat and fought their way to the semi-finals.
The Under-17s were more inspirational. Including Anderson, now of Manchester United, they went all the way to the final before going down to Mexico.
This year though, the Brazilian youngsters didn't come within a sniff of a title.
In Canada, the Under-20s went out to Spain in the second round after extraordinarily losing three of their four matches.
In Korea, the Under-17s started off like a train, with huge wins over New Zealand and North Korea.
But then they lost tight matches against England and Ghana and they too were out in the second round.
So both Brazil youth teams failed to even reach the quarter-finals.
In one sense this might not matter too much. The driving force behind all youth football should be the aim of developing players rather than winning cups.
Alexandre Pato has been one of Brazil's success stories
And some very promising Brazilian youngsters - the likes of Under-20 striker Alexandre Pato and Under-17 left-back Fabio - have picked up some terrific experience.
But this will come as small consolation for many in the Brazilian FA.
Whatever the level of the game, every time Brazil take the field the prestige of their football is considered to be at stake.
Brazil's youth team coaches and back-up staff see no contradiction between developing players and winning trophies - for them the two aims go together.
Their detailed planning and preparation were drawn up in the hope of coming back with the trophy.
The interesting thing is that within their own continent it worked.
Both Brazil's Under-20s and the Under-17s qualified as champions of South America - and were then unable to sustain their supremacy in their respective World Cup competition.
Trying to impose a pattern onto something as capricious as football results is a hazardous business.
But perhaps one possible explanation can be found in the methodology Brazil have followed in recent years.
Scared by the rise of the rise of the northern European game in the 60s and 70s - 'force football' as it was termed in Brazil - they sought to bulk up.
Until recently former left-back Branco was co-ordinating Brazil's youth sides.
He told me that right from the start of the process he and his team were looking for big, strong players.
The idea was that if they could match the Europeans in physical terms, their technical advantage would tip the balance.
The project has been very successful, though it could be argued that the aesthetic quality of their play has fallen as a consequence.
But maybe the point has now been reached where Brazil's youth teams have a physical, and especially aerial, advantage against their South American neighbours. But they no longer have a sufficient technical advantage over the biggest and best sides from the rest of the world.