Tweet
posted 18 Hours Ago
I really don't understand why everyone is getting so worked up about this liverpool team. The only top class signing they have made is Fernando Torres. Otherwise, they have signed:
- a winger/forward who doesn't really score and doesn't really assist, and is very overrated judging by reports coming out of Holland.
- a midfielder who was decent at best for WEST HAM.
- a promising youngster who plays a position in which they already have two very good, young players.
So how can anyone say that by making these signings liverpool have improved drastically enough to make up the 20 points they were behind man utd and chelsea last season?
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by paulo6891
posted 16 Hours Ago
We beat an arsenal team without their skipper pretty much all season, without their second main attacker Van Persie for most of the season, for alot of their season they had no central defence, and we managed to finish level on points with them.
Last season: we lost both matches to Man U, we only beat chelsea in the league when they had their central defence torn apart by injuries, essien playing in central defence at 5'6, beat arsenal once, lost once, and we lost 4 points out of 12 against the bottom 3. then there was the 1 pt out of 6 against everton, including being destroyed at goodison.
And if youre to look at the money liverpool have spent under benitez, it is ALOT, it just hasnt been spent on the 1 player, therefore we dont get as much attention. Benitez has always focused on quantity over quality, hence the number of failures he has brought in, and the low number of success stories. (Alonso, Agger)
This summer chelsea are after getting Sidwell who was a good performer last season, will prove good back up, Pizarro is a well experienced Forward who has played at the highest level. Ben Haim will provide much needed back up to Terry and Carvalho, Sheva cant get any worse, and Mourinho is ditching the diamond and going back to having wingers, chelseas best formation.
I dont know much about Nani and Anderson, but theyre meant to be good, theyve bought Hargreaves, dont know what his role will be with carrick, but a good player none the less. Then theres the possible tevez transfer. And they havent sold players, meaning theyll be up there again this season.
Now.. lets look at liverpool.. Torres who seems to be a really good striker, but his scoring ratio leaves alot to be desired.. benayoun, a west ham playmaker who will be player out of position on the right, and babel who has a reputation and he has potential, but remains unproven (but has been a disaster in the friendlies)
Now lets not forget that liverpool barely had injuries last season, not to key players anyway. Arsenal had no strike force for a long time, and also no defence with injuries to toure and gallas. Towards the end of the season Man U had Rio AND Vidic injured, O Shea and Heinze and Brown were left in defence. And both Terry and Carvalho were missing alot for chelsea. Taking this into account and then looking at the table..
Man U - 89
Chelsea - 83
Liverpool - 68
Arsenal - 68
.. would suggest that it is blatant mediocrity.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by hesbighesred
posted 16 Hours Ago
paulo...
Are you sure you support Liverpool?
If you really do do you actually remember what our football was like in the dark days of late Houllier...or Souness, or Evans?
Its ridiculous to suggest these players won't strengthen us. How do you know?
As for the money, prior to this season, NET, Rafa spent about 15million each summer. Not insignificant, but not an absolute massive amount either, especially to close the gap on Chelsea (super rich) or Man U (years and years of investment).
You also say we had virtually no injuries last season.
Well, I remember that first Everton game featuring a half-fit Carragher. Kewell (our main creative outlet the season before, when we finished on 80+ points) was out for the entire season. Then there was Garcia, and Aurelio, who was just starting to show his best form...not forgetting Sissoko too, who was out for a long time with that dis-located shoulder.
No wonder other clubs accuse Liverpool of arrogance when we have supporters who can look at two major trophies in three full seasons (and one CL final we were unlucky to lose)...and scream 'blatant mediocrity'.
You must find life a very unsatisfying experience with your level of perfectionism. Sheesh.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by riktaylor
posted 16 Hours Ago
With this signing you should end up third. But no chance in winning the title.
As a neutral I look at Chelsea and Man U's squad and you are have a long way to go to pull back the 21 points deficit of last season
but good luck anyway
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by paulo6891
posted 15 Hours Ago
carragher.. one player who we had back up, kewell a player who prob wouldnt get a game anyway coz he hasnt been a good player for years. Rafa sold Garcia as soon as he got fit again, obviously not a first team player. Aurelio wasnt ahead of riise in the pecking order. Sissoko wouldnt be a regular either, hes a disaster of a player for whom we have much better replacements. The only KEY player (i only mentioned key players injuries on the other teams) you mentioned there was carragher.. who was lacking fitness for one match. the poor thing.
You can sit there saying im not a liverpool fan, and go on about doing well in a few cups, but ive stated fact, and i think anyone would agree with me. i want liverpool to win the league, and going by rafas league record, thats not going to happen. If you want to settle for being 20 pts behind the top, you should support everton.
Liverpool didnt deserve to win the CL because they could only manage to score in the dying moments against a team who had obviously lost concentration, as all italian teams do. They played well, but its football, if you havent got the ability to score then you shouldnt win.
Then Rafa, the GREAT manager you all say he is, what does he do when we're 2-0 down with 10 or so minutes left... didnt he bring on arbeloa. Wow. Definitely right to be picked ahead of Bellamy.
And Rafa clearly spent ALOT more than 15 million each summer.
Kuyt 9+ million, Alonso was over 10m, Sissoko was pretty expensive, 8 or something, i dont know what kinda deal was made for mascherano, Garcia cost a few million, Pennant cost was it 6 or 7 million or something, a little bit more was spent on crouch, Agger wasnt exactly cheap, and Reina??. Then there are all the other players who we've bought but who havent been successes. And you say about 15 million a season??
Got a few figures here, feel free to check them out..
Benitez spending..
summer 2004 - £15.85m
summer 2005 - £28.9m
summer 2006 - £29.7m
Then theres this summer, with he spending already not far from £40m with maybe another 15 on a winger.
you dont have a clue.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by coolredmaccladd
posted 4 Hours Ago
Re Paulo 6891
All Liverpool fans should look at his comments to get a reality check. I am not convinced by the signings so far. But, lets not forget a competitive ball has not been kicked yet, so its wrong to judge people as failures or as an outstanding success. Lets keep some perspective and wait till April of next year to Judge. Frankly I feel we will be looking at a replay of last seasons places with perhaps a little less space between each club. Please god I am proved wrong
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by pfowighz
posted 2 Hours Ago
Paulo has some good points anyway. Just a lil harsh and maybe overly critical...
...But no one can deny that he has genuine points.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by ThisIsAnfield2007
posted 1 Hour Ago
I've heard a lot of good things about Lucas Levia, all I can say is I hope he fulfills his potential, unlike some other starlets who've come to Liverpool with a good reputation, only to fail spectacularly. Not sure where he's going to fit in though, we've almost got as many midfielders as Chelsea!
Like someone else has already mentioned, the area we look weak in is at the back if we get a couple of serious injuries to the key players at the back.. Carra, Steve Finnan and John Arne Riise IMO. Whilst Big Sami can step in and cover for Carra, I think he's lacking the pace to match the top strikers nowadays. Arbeloa isn't good enough to replace Finnan in my view, and with Aurelio still out injured, we're left a little limited at left back for the time being.
As for challenging for the title this year, I think we'll still be a little off the top, last season's form in the Premiership was disastrous, but what always costs us is our poor starts, if we can sort that out and keep the momentum going, I think we're in with a shout.
Here's an interesting stat that people seem to have forgotten, if you took out the first 6 games from the 05-06 season, Liverpool amassed more points than anyone else in the league.. A good start will be crucial.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by hesbighesred
posted 44 Minutes Ago
Paulo may have some points, but theres no need to be so insulting about it, and there's also no need to go 'I'm only stating fact' when not only is his writing mostly opinion, but several of his facts are in fact wrong.
I stated a NET spend of 15million per season before this season. I have checked these figures many times...and are players bought - players sold.
He also states that Garcia was sold as soon as he recovered...therefore was no significant part of our squad. A more accurate way of putting it would be that he wanted to go back to Spain (as he said several times), and that we let him go because we were signing a replacement in Benayoun.
Also, to state as 'fact' that Sissoko was not a regular part of the team, and that we had 'superior' replacements for him at the time of his injury suggest very strongly that Paulo does not follow Liverpool anywhere near as closely as he would like you to think.
He was very much a first team regular in the previous season...and we had NO adequate replacement for him until we signed Mash after christmas.
The same goes for Kewell. Claiming that he has never been an important part of our squad is just silly. If you read through my post I say quite clearly that he was, again, a KEY member of the side in the previous season (during which, lest we forget, we finished on our highest ever points total in the prem).
As a final insult, he suggests that Rafa's league record gives no indication that he will succeed. Presumably Paulo has conveniently ignored (as so many of Rafa's critics do) that Rafa HAS won league titles...two of them, with his former club Valencia.
Lastly, given Paulo's apperent confidence in the sheer number of superior managers who could come in and do a better job, I would challeng im to name one with a better record who is likely to join us?
We get enough WUM rubbish from other fans without having to hear it from our own fans too. Criticism is all good, but tabloid style thoughtless shouting without providing real evidence or solutions is NOT the Liverpool way.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by hesbighesred
posted 28 Minutes Ago
Oh and just to round that all off Paulo:
Kuyt 9+ million, Alonso was over 10m, Sissoko was pretty expensive, 8 or something, i dont know what kinda deal was made for mascherano, Garcia cost a few million, Pennant cost was it 6 or 7 million or something, a little bit more was spent on crouch, Agger wasnt exactly cheap, and Reina??. Then there are all the other players who we've bought but who havent been successes. And you say about 15 million a season??
Kuyt cost 9million, still worth that much.
Alonso 10.25million, now worth 15+million
Sissoko 5.5million, now worth 8-12million
Garcia 6.25, sold for 5, loss of 1.25
Pennant 6.7million, now worth 6-7million
Mash on loan with option to buy for 10million (although no one seems to know this for certain) however, if this is true, then 10million is a bargain, as he's worth at least 15million
Agger 5.5million, worth at least 10million...will be 15+million if he has decent season
Reina 6million, worth 8-10million
Not to forget that the above players are nearly all young with potential for their value to rise much further.
Not to mention the likes of Carson, who cost us about 1million, and whose sale would cover the transfer fees of ALL the young players Rafa has bought.
The biggest loss he has made on the transfer market was 3million on the 30 year old Morientes.
But of course...you are stating 'fact' everyone agrees with you (except the LFC fans I talk to, and read the views of on this forum, and whose columns I read)...and I 'don't have a clue'
add comment | complain about this comment
I really don't understand why everyone is getting so worked up about this liverpool team. The only top class signing they have made is Fernando Torres. Otherwise, they have signed:
- a winger/forward who doesn't really score and doesn't really assist, and is very overrated judging by reports coming out of Holland.
- a midfielder who was decent at best for WEST HAM.
- a promising youngster who plays a position in which they already have two very good, young players.
So how can anyone say that by making these signings liverpool have improved drastically enough to make up the 20 points they were behind man utd and chelsea last season?
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by paulo6891
posted 16 Hours Ago
We beat an arsenal team without their skipper pretty much all season, without their second main attacker Van Persie for most of the season, for alot of their season they had no central defence, and we managed to finish level on points with them.
Last season: we lost both matches to Man U, we only beat chelsea in the league when they had their central defence torn apart by injuries, essien playing in central defence at 5'6, beat arsenal once, lost once, and we lost 4 points out of 12 against the bottom 3. then there was the 1 pt out of 6 against everton, including being destroyed at goodison.
And if youre to look at the money liverpool have spent under benitez, it is ALOT, it just hasnt been spent on the 1 player, therefore we dont get as much attention. Benitez has always focused on quantity over quality, hence the number of failures he has brought in, and the low number of success stories. (Alonso, Agger)
This summer chelsea are after getting Sidwell who was a good performer last season, will prove good back up, Pizarro is a well experienced Forward who has played at the highest level. Ben Haim will provide much needed back up to Terry and Carvalho, Sheva cant get any worse, and Mourinho is ditching the diamond and going back to having wingers, chelseas best formation.
I dont know much about Nani and Anderson, but theyre meant to be good, theyve bought Hargreaves, dont know what his role will be with carrick, but a good player none the less. Then theres the possible tevez transfer. And they havent sold players, meaning theyll be up there again this season.
Now.. lets look at liverpool.. Torres who seems to be a really good striker, but his scoring ratio leaves alot to be desired.. benayoun, a west ham playmaker who will be player out of position on the right, and babel who has a reputation and he has potential, but remains unproven (but has been a disaster in the friendlies)
Now lets not forget that liverpool barely had injuries last season, not to key players anyway. Arsenal had no strike force for a long time, and also no defence with injuries to toure and gallas. Towards the end of the season Man U had Rio AND Vidic injured, O Shea and Heinze and Brown were left in defence. And both Terry and Carvalho were missing alot for chelsea. Taking this into account and then looking at the table..
Man U - 89
Chelsea - 83
Liverpool - 68
Arsenal - 68
.. would suggest that it is blatant mediocrity.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by hesbighesred
posted 16 Hours Ago
paulo...
Are you sure you support Liverpool?
If you really do do you actually remember what our football was like in the dark days of late Houllier...or Souness, or Evans?
Its ridiculous to suggest these players won't strengthen us. How do you know?
As for the money, prior to this season, NET, Rafa spent about 15million each summer. Not insignificant, but not an absolute massive amount either, especially to close the gap on Chelsea (super rich) or Man U (years and years of investment).
You also say we had virtually no injuries last season.
Well, I remember that first Everton game featuring a half-fit Carragher. Kewell (our main creative outlet the season before, when we finished on 80+ points) was out for the entire season. Then there was Garcia, and Aurelio, who was just starting to show his best form...not forgetting Sissoko too, who was out for a long time with that dis-located shoulder.
No wonder other clubs accuse Liverpool of arrogance when we have supporters who can look at two major trophies in three full seasons (and one CL final we were unlucky to lose)...and scream 'blatant mediocrity'.
You must find life a very unsatisfying experience with your level of perfectionism. Sheesh.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by riktaylor
posted 16 Hours Ago
With this signing you should end up third. But no chance in winning the title.
As a neutral I look at Chelsea and Man U's squad and you are have a long way to go to pull back the 21 points deficit of last season
but good luck anyway
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by paulo6891
posted 15 Hours Ago
carragher.. one player who we had back up, kewell a player who prob wouldnt get a game anyway coz he hasnt been a good player for years. Rafa sold Garcia as soon as he got fit again, obviously not a first team player. Aurelio wasnt ahead of riise in the pecking order. Sissoko wouldnt be a regular either, hes a disaster of a player for whom we have much better replacements. The only KEY player (i only mentioned key players injuries on the other teams) you mentioned there was carragher.. who was lacking fitness for one match. the poor thing.
You can sit there saying im not a liverpool fan, and go on about doing well in a few cups, but ive stated fact, and i think anyone would agree with me. i want liverpool to win the league, and going by rafas league record, thats not going to happen. If you want to settle for being 20 pts behind the top, you should support everton.
Liverpool didnt deserve to win the CL because they could only manage to score in the dying moments against a team who had obviously lost concentration, as all italian teams do. They played well, but its football, if you havent got the ability to score then you shouldnt win.
Then Rafa, the GREAT manager you all say he is, what does he do when we're 2-0 down with 10 or so minutes left... didnt he bring on arbeloa. Wow. Definitely right to be picked ahead of Bellamy.
And Rafa clearly spent ALOT more than 15 million each summer.
Kuyt 9+ million, Alonso was over 10m, Sissoko was pretty expensive, 8 or something, i dont know what kinda deal was made for mascherano, Garcia cost a few million, Pennant cost was it 6 or 7 million or something, a little bit more was spent on crouch, Agger wasnt exactly cheap, and Reina??. Then there are all the other players who we've bought but who havent been successes. And you say about 15 million a season??
Got a few figures here, feel free to check them out..
Benitez spending..
summer 2004 - £15.85m
summer 2005 - £28.9m
summer 2006 - £29.7m
Then theres this summer, with he spending already not far from £40m with maybe another 15 on a winger.
you dont have a clue.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by coolredmaccladd
posted 4 Hours Ago
Re Paulo 6891
All Liverpool fans should look at his comments to get a reality check. I am not convinced by the signings so far. But, lets not forget a competitive ball has not been kicked yet, so its wrong to judge people as failures or as an outstanding success. Lets keep some perspective and wait till April of next year to Judge. Frankly I feel we will be looking at a replay of last seasons places with perhaps a little less space between each club. Please god I am proved wrong
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by pfowighz
posted 2 Hours Ago
Paulo has some good points anyway. Just a lil harsh and maybe overly critical...
...But no one can deny that he has genuine points.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by ThisIsAnfield2007
posted 1 Hour Ago
I've heard a lot of good things about Lucas Levia, all I can say is I hope he fulfills his potential, unlike some other starlets who've come to Liverpool with a good reputation, only to fail spectacularly. Not sure where he's going to fit in though, we've almost got as many midfielders as Chelsea!
Like someone else has already mentioned, the area we look weak in is at the back if we get a couple of serious injuries to the key players at the back.. Carra, Steve Finnan and John Arne Riise IMO. Whilst Big Sami can step in and cover for Carra, I think he's lacking the pace to match the top strikers nowadays. Arbeloa isn't good enough to replace Finnan in my view, and with Aurelio still out injured, we're left a little limited at left back for the time being.
As for challenging for the title this year, I think we'll still be a little off the top, last season's form in the Premiership was disastrous, but what always costs us is our poor starts, if we can sort that out and keep the momentum going, I think we're in with a shout.
Here's an interesting stat that people seem to have forgotten, if you took out the first 6 games from the 05-06 season, Liverpool amassed more points than anyone else in the league.. A good start will be crucial.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by hesbighesred
posted 44 Minutes Ago
Paulo may have some points, but theres no need to be so insulting about it, and there's also no need to go 'I'm only stating fact' when not only is his writing mostly opinion, but several of his facts are in fact wrong.
I stated a NET spend of 15million per season before this season. I have checked these figures many times...and are players bought - players sold.
He also states that Garcia was sold as soon as he recovered...therefore was no significant part of our squad. A more accurate way of putting it would be that he wanted to go back to Spain (as he said several times), and that we let him go because we were signing a replacement in Benayoun.
Also, to state as 'fact' that Sissoko was not a regular part of the team, and that we had 'superior' replacements for him at the time of his injury suggest very strongly that Paulo does not follow Liverpool anywhere near as closely as he would like you to think.
He was very much a first team regular in the previous season...and we had NO adequate replacement for him until we signed Mash after christmas.
The same goes for Kewell. Claiming that he has never been an important part of our squad is just silly. If you read through my post I say quite clearly that he was, again, a KEY member of the side in the previous season (during which, lest we forget, we finished on our highest ever points total in the prem).
As a final insult, he suggests that Rafa's league record gives no indication that he will succeed. Presumably Paulo has conveniently ignored (as so many of Rafa's critics do) that Rafa HAS won league titles...two of them, with his former club Valencia.
Lastly, given Paulo's apperent confidence in the sheer number of superior managers who could come in and do a better job, I would challeng im to name one with a better record who is likely to join us?
We get enough WUM rubbish from other fans without having to hear it from our own fans too. Criticism is all good, but tabloid style thoughtless shouting without providing real evidence or solutions is NOT the Liverpool way.
add comment | complain about this comment
comment by hesbighesred
posted 28 Minutes Ago
Oh and just to round that all off Paulo:
Kuyt 9+ million, Alonso was over 10m, Sissoko was pretty expensive, 8 or something, i dont know what kinda deal was made for mascherano, Garcia cost a few million, Pennant cost was it 6 or 7 million or something, a little bit more was spent on crouch, Agger wasnt exactly cheap, and Reina??. Then there are all the other players who we've bought but who havent been successes. And you say about 15 million a season??
Kuyt cost 9million, still worth that much.
Alonso 10.25million, now worth 15+million
Sissoko 5.5million, now worth 8-12million
Garcia 6.25, sold for 5, loss of 1.25
Pennant 6.7million, now worth 6-7million
Mash on loan with option to buy for 10million (although no one seems to know this for certain) however, if this is true, then 10million is a bargain, as he's worth at least 15million
Agger 5.5million, worth at least 10million...will be 15+million if he has decent season
Reina 6million, worth 8-10million
Not to forget that the above players are nearly all young with potential for their value to rise much further.
Not to mention the likes of Carson, who cost us about 1million, and whose sale would cover the transfer fees of ALL the young players Rafa has bought.
The biggest loss he has made on the transfer market was 3million on the 30 year old Morientes.
But of course...you are stating 'fact' everyone agrees with you (except the LFC fans I talk to, and read the views of on this forum, and whose columns I read)...and I 'don't have a clue'
add comment | complain about this comment