Stoni whats wrong with Lucas

[Paul Marin]

you have went out of your way to deny me from claiming coach and club all because I didn't embrace BR as a Liverpool coach.

You know, I have tried to bite my tongue true is the holy season, but I can't stand by and see this horseshyte being perpetrated on me (or Peter), or my club. Stop making things up. I personally have not denied you from claiming the club because you didn't embrace BR. I have banished you to the depths of wagonism because you are a turncoat...YOU chose to run to City - remember? You also jumped to Chelsea, Napoli and even contemplated Real Madrid most recently. That is not support for LFC. Take that, shove it in your pipe, and smoke it.

The facts also show that you ran away only 3 games into Rodgers tenure as manager, but be that as it may, you didn't stay away until Rodgers got sacked (which would have been a more palatable protest and would have supported the garbage you are now trying to spin) but then, when you saw us nearly win the title under Rodgers, you tried to COME BACK, calling the manager you now say you didn't support "astute"..."growing on you". The fact that the rest of us slapped you down for that is what caused me to write an end of season case against you, which was put to vote, and an open court of supporters, you were found guilty and banished, branded a wagonist for all eternity.

Now, you are trying to rewrite history, trying to invent things: you never cited the "trinity" when you ran to City, never cited Shanks until I brought his name up, never cited any of the mumblings that you have a new-found "appreciation" for now that you are scrambling to "show support" in a futile attempt at justifying your unconscionable actions.

The problem, is that you are a sunshiner, a wagonist, a turncoat, an idol-worshiper and a goat-mout chosing to support our rivals when the rest of us toughed it out. You were disloyal, treasonous, and guilty of wagonism. Hug that up and stop making up stories.

So, to be clear...YOU HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN THE RIGHTS OF A TRUE LFC SUPPORTER BECAUSE YOU LEFT THE CLUB THEN TRIED TO COME BACK ONLY WHEN IT LOOKED LIKE WE WOULD WIN THE TITLE. PERIOD!!! That is "sunshinerism" and wagonism -- neither are signs of loyalty. They are not in line with Shanks spirit of the trinity and offensive to those of us who stayed with the club. It is even more offensive when you try to stain Shanks good memory by trying to spin your run to City was a show of support for Shanks trinity.

So one more time - you walk alone not because you didn't embrace BR as Liverpool coach, but because you left for City. Nothing you can do, say, spin, lie bout, polish, varnish, taint, paint, or fabricate will ever change that. You are a turncoat. Hug dat up and stop lying to Stoni, me, the forum, Peter, and most of all, yourself. You are a traitor. Simple. Shameful. Disgraceful.

[Sir X]

Thanks,now go support your coach...hehe

[Peter R]

I have never objected to Paul claiming JK as his coach ,I couldn't care less,he and you have went out of your way to deny me from claiming coach and club all because I didn't embrace BR as a Liverpool coach. I believed it clashed with his philosophy that a supporters job is to support the coach appointed by the owners,a philosophy I rejected and I have given my reasons clearly.A supporters job is to hold whoever accountable to the clubs historical ambition.You guys went so far as to make up a false gospel,defined it as loyalty when in truth it appealed for unity. It came out that I had a strong point given BR sacking and Lord knows who else to come in this football world. 1 & 2

I have stressed that BR and Hodgson were his coaches, he backed them,I didn't.Paul's philosophy of support has no place in football,it never did,its an abomination to any true fan. 3

Don't paint me as being so petty about support 4,I wasn't the one that started the personal name calling to defend the philosophy. Paul was,I ended it.I guess you two were surprised you weren't the only ones who knew how to liff up unnuh skirt and trace like gal5 ,shamefully and eloquently.I repeat I could not care less if Paul hugs up JK because I believe he represents the historical ambition of the club BR never did and struggled to find it ,hence his sacking.

Well, it looks like the Christmas truce get bruk!

I see Paul dealt with you but let me just add my two cents.

No. 1 ~ a) Who is making up "stuff" here? Paul and/I? I never knew that either of us had that power and influence to make up a "doctrine", attribute it to the manager and have it accepted and embraced by millions around the world. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but all I have to say is: that is a fabrication of your imagination b) Who are you trying to bamboozle with your "loyalty" v. "unity" semantics. I put it to you that in the context of a club, both of these closely related qualities are basic requirements to lend support to the club of one's choice. e.g. if there is no "unity" among players, the loyalty to manager, supporters and ultimately support for the club, will not be achieved.

2) With respect to BR's sacking, whether you had good points or not is really beside the point related to the aforementioned loyalty to one's club. I don't think anyone ever postulated that loyalty should be blind, but rather demonstrated in a manner that maintained the integrity of the basic tenets of loyalty to one's club, somewhat akin to NOT airing one's dirty laundry in public, if indeed the "laundry" was dirty, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY not abandoning the ship like Francesco Schettino (Costa Concordia, Italian cruise liner) or Lee Jeon-seok (MV Sewol, Korean ferry).

3) That is simply YOUR opinion and you're entitled to it, even if it runs against the grain of what I spoke about (my view which is the right one BTW ) in "2" above.

4) I am not trying to paint anything, other than to point out that you created a fictitious coach v. coach scenario (of late), when no such thing was ever the case.

5) No surprise about anything. Enough rum inna man head anyting cyan happen! This is a "rum bar" after all!

[Sir X]

I see Paul dealt with you but let me just add my two cents.

• Did he?

No. 1 ~ a) Who is making up "stuff" here? Paul and/I? I never knew that either of us had that power and influence to make up a "doctrine", attribute it to the manager and have it accepted and embraced by millions around the world. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but all I have to say is: that is a fabrication of your imagination b) Who are you trying to bamboozle with your "loyalty" v. "unity" semantics. I put it to you that in the context of a club, both of these closely related qualities are basic requirements to lend support to the club of one's choice. e.g. if there is no "unity" among players, the loyalty to manager, supporters and ultimately support for the club, will not be achieved.

• Isn’t that what you two did, you found an uncited quote and defined it to mean loyalty even going so far as in Pauls case to add a cited quote to tag it on to try and give it validity, embraced by millions doesn’t mean it has validity, more so that a lie repeated a thousand times without being checked is taken for the truth. I checked you, so there goes your confidence in the truth. B) Its not my semantics it’s your definition which in reality is nothing more than an ambiguous opinion. The related qualities of loyalty and unity come into conflict if there are competing interest in achieving the historical ambition of the club manager- players- owners –supporters, loyalty isn’t on trial here but unity. The quote in my opinion calls for unity as you stated for loyalty to be achieved( To your past manager ) .

2) With respect to BR's sacking, whether you had good points or not is really beside the point related to the aforementioned loyalty to one's club. I don't think anyone ever postulated that loyalty should be blind, but rather demonstrated in a manner that maintained the integrity of the basic tenets of loyalty to one's club, somewhat akin to NOT airing one's dirty laundry in public, if indeed the "laundry" was dirty, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY not abandoning the ship like Francesco Schettino (Costa Concordia, Italian cruise liner) or Lee Jeon-seok (MV Sewol, Korean ferry).

• "If you can't support us when we lose or draw, don't support us when we win." Isn’t this a call for unity to support a blind cause? the question becomes
• Who is us- is it the owners- managers- players- supporters, it takes an odd twist when Paul states the supporters job is to support the manager.
• The ambition/goal of the quote is ambiguous- lose-draw-win
• To what gain /goal/ambition- This seems to be missing from you, Paul and the quote( Where does the ambition of the club come up )


But you define it as integrity to the basic tenets of loyalty not airing dirty laundry e.g. BR is a RUCKS, abandoning ship like saying I can’t support his nonsense?

3) that is simply YOUR opinion and you're entitled to it, even if it runs against the grain of what I spoke about (my view which is the right one BTW) in "2" above.

• Thanks! As your opinion is noted and for your information it runs against mine.

4) I am not trying to paint anything, other than to point out that you created a fictitious coach v. coach scenario (of late), when no such thing was ever the case.

• If that’s the case why pose the question what is the difference or in some quarters pose no difference ? isn’t it to show a point or way in which people or things are not the same, so the question becomes for what gain,why change the coach, if not to show a difference in coach vs coach scenario or maybe it’s just for educational purposes because you have confessed, you aren’t too knowledgeable on the tactical issues of football and Paul is studying to be a coach…hehe if so, my apologies.

5) No surprise about anything. Enough rum inna man head anyting cyan happen! This is a "rum bar" after all!

• True

[Peter R]

[QUOTE=X;545863]I see Paul dealt with you but let me just add my two cents.

• Did he?

No. 1 ~ a) Who is making up "stuff" here? Paul and/I? I never knew that either of us had that power and influence to make up a "doctrine", attribute it to the manager and have it accepted and embraced by millions around the world. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but all I have to say is: that is a fabrication of your imagination b) Who are you trying to bamboozle with your "loyalty" v. "unity" semantics. I put it to you that in the context of a club, both of these closely related qualities are basic requirements to lend support to the club of one's choice. e.g. if there is no "unity" among players, the loyalty to manager, supporters and ultimately support for the club, will not be achieved.

• Isn’t that what you two did, you found an uncited quote and defined it to mean loyalty even going so far as in Pauls case to add a cited quote to tag it on to try and give it validity, embraced by millions doesn’t mean it has validity, more so that a lie repeated a thousand times without being checked is taken for the truth. I checked you, so there goes your confidence in the truth. B) Its not my semantics it’s your definition which in reality is nothing more than an ambiguous opinion. The related qualities of loyalty and unity come into conflict if there are competing interest in achieving the historical ambition of the club manager- players- owners –supporters, loyalty isn’t on trial here but unity. The quote in my opinion calls for unity as you stated for loyalty to be achieved( To your past manager ) .

2) With respect to BR's sacking, whether you had good points or not is really beside the point related to the aforementioned loyalty to one's club. I don't think anyone ever postulated that loyalty should be blind, but rather demonstrated in a manner that maintained the integrity of the basic tenets of loyalty to one's club, somewhat akin to NOT airing one's dirty laundry in public, if indeed the "laundry" was dirty, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY not abandoning the ship like Francesco Schettino (Costa Concordia, Italian cruise liner) or Lee Jeon-seok (MV Sewol, Korean ferry).

• "If you can't support us when we lose or draw, don't support us when we win." Isn’t this a call for unity to support a blind cause? the question becomes
• Who is us- is it the owners- managers- players- supporters, it takes an odd twist when Paul states the supporters job is to support the manager.
• The ambition/goal of the quote is ambiguous- lose-draw-win
• To what gain /goal/ambition- This seems to be missing from you, Paul and the quote( Where does the ambition of the club come up )


But you define it as integrity to the basic tenets of loyalty not airing dirty laundry e.g. BR is a RUCKS, abandoning ship like saying I can’t support his nonsense?

3) that is simply YOUR opinion and you're entitled to it, even if it runs against the grain of what I spoke about (my view which is the right one BTW) in "2" above.

• Thanks! As your opinion is noted and for your information it runs against mine.

4) I am not trying to paint anything, other than to point out that you created a fictitious coach v. coach scenario (of late), when no such thing was ever the case.

• If that’s the case why pose the question what is the difference or in some quarters pose no difference ? isn’t it to show a point or way in which people or things are not the same, so the question becomes for what gain,why change the coach, if not to show a difference in coach vs coach scenario or maybe it’s just for educational purposes because you have confessed, you aren’t too knowledgeable on the tactical issues of football and Paul is studying to be a coach…hehe if so, my apologies.

5) No surprise about anything. Enough rum inna man head anyting cyan happen! This is a "rum bar" after all!

• True
+++++++++++
I've said my piece on this... as 2016 approaches one of my resolutions is to be less STUPID!

But (stupid me) I have to add to my comments that YOU introduced the word UNITY in the debate, as associating LOYALTY to the Shankly quote (or non-quote) is hitting particularly close to home for you. And so, while you have a profound need to absolve yourself of club-hopping, the quote is a constant reminder to you of same, regardless of who penned it!

I have no problem with associating either word with that quote, AND MORE IMPORTANT, associating it with support FOR THE CLUB... you seem obsessed with the manager... you still have not understood the ideals of support as embodied in the "disputed" quote, AND what the past manager was trying to imbue in all who have a vested interest in LFC. The quote is AIMED DIRECTLY AT those who jump ship when the seas get a little rough!

[Sir X]

As you so eloquently said ,your opinion runs against my grain.

[Paul Marin]

Thanks,now go support your coach...hehe

He he he my rhas...you dyam right - I support my coach, my club, my team. You? Shows that if this is the only thing you can come back wid, sey u get fin' out. Dyam liad. Gwey!! You go into 2016 the same as 2015...walking alone as a traitor.

[Sir X]

You really need some relevance in your life dont you , you expected some silly comeback as per questioning of your loyalties ,he is your coach, you need to tell the world on the top of your voice or denigrate someone to validate it.So you found me.

Or is it that you chose to use it to hide behind your questionable philosophy of loyalty to support a failing manager ,i.e supporters job or the made up quote,compounded on your theory on how to compete consistently.

I dont ,Maybe its both for you,happy holidays,petty and silly...hehe

[Paul Marin]

You really need some relevance in your life dont you , you expected some silly comeback as per questioning of your loyalties ,he is your coach, you need to tell the world on the top of your voice or denigrate someone to validate it.So you found me.

Or is it that you chose to use it to hide behind your questionable philosophy of loyalty to support a failing manager ,i.e supporters job or the made up quote,compounded on your theory on how to compete consistently.

I dont ,Maybe its both for you,happy holidays,petty and silly...hehe

Once again, you are trying to point at me like I did something. As I said, you get fin' out. You left LFC and in so doing you were disloyal. That has nothing to do with me. The FACT is that you are a traitor. Hug it up. And for the avoidance of doubt, every LFC coach is MY COACH, that includes Rodgers, Hodgson, Rafa, Shanks, Klopp...no matta how bad dem is, dem still get my support over who a run City etc. That's loyalty. What you did, is wagonism, traitorism, sunshinerism...you supported a nex' club over LFC. End of story. So stop trying to justify it with your false doctrine. You walk alone.

[Sir X]

Once again i got found out......my coach ,my team,my club plays tomorrow and the coach initials are JK...hehehe

The comeback....lol

[Paul Marin]

Once again i got found out......my coach ,my team,my club plays tomorrow and the coach initials are JK...hehehe

The comeback....lol

Stop gwaan like you nuh know seh you is a traitorous brute. You left. End of story - that's the legacy of the quadrilateral doctrine. Walk alone and stop tear down fi wi club..."seduced" di breda seh. LOL!!