Let the stupidity begin...

[Sir X]

What has been shown is your Premise about BR defensive record, its flawed, especially if you choose to go by your magic EPL standards of 13 clean sheets.BR like you ,was/is a defensive disaster.

[Sir X]

At best you are being ambiguous and I have no doubt,that's your goal.

[Paul Marin]

What has been shown is your Premise about BR defensive record, its flawed, especially if you choose to go by your magic EPL standards of 13 clean sheets.BR like you ,was/is a defensive disaster.

Sure, you are entitled to your position. Now, please give evidence supporting your argument. And by evidence, we don't count the flatulence that comes out of your arse via your fingertips.

[Rockman]

Peter R,Man U had Moyes,Pool had BR,we now have LvG,and Pool has Klopp,do you really think my interest in this has anything to do with friendship?
That is just your way of obfuscating The issue,and there are other evidence of that strategy at play.
It was mere hours ago X posted his Rafa-type facts dossier,I took a position waaay before that,it did not alter, in any way, my opinion,it merely provided confirmation..
I believe it is one of many things to know if one wants to have an informed opinion.
Firstly citing a goal keeper clean sheet record ..as a sure sign of a team having a good defensive unit is misleading.You have, in the past, attributed Man U reversal of misfortune solely to deGea,should we deduce that Man U has a decent defense because of deGea?
City is as good as dead Sunday solely because Arsenal taught my Man U a lesson.Consider Arsenal to be 'other competitions' and the subsequent lesson for Pool is your goalkeeper impressive clean sheet..only provides a false sense of security..
Just how critical is the EPL in determining if you have a worthy defense?

[Paul Marin]

Peter R,Man U had Moyes,Pool had BR,we now have LvG,and Pool has Klopp,do you really think my interest in this has anything to do with friendship?
That is just your way of obfuscating The issue,and there are other evidence of that strategy at play.
It was mere hours ago X posted his Rafa-type facts dossier,I took a position waaay before that,it did not alter, in any way, my opinion,it merely provided confirmation..
I believe it is one of many things to know if one wants to have an informed opinion.
Firstly citing a goal keeper clean sheet record ..as a sure sign of a team having a good defensive unit is misleading.You have, in the past, attributed Man U reversal of misfortune solely to deGea,should we deduce that Man U has a decent defense because of deGea?
City is as good as dead Sunday solely because Arsenal taught my Man U a lesson.Consider Arsenal to be 'other competitions' and the subsequent lesson for Pool is your goalkeeper impressive clean sheet..only provides a false sense of security..
Just how critical is the EPL in determining if you have a worthy defense?

Rocky, if clean sheets are not an indicator of good defending, what is? And as for a false sense of security, I don't disagree, but wherever data is explicit and unambiguous, it should not be dismissed.

[Rockman]

Well it could only be an indicator of great prowess of the goalkeeper.
Sure we should use data,and the more data the better.

[Paul Marin]

Well it could only be an indicator of great prowess of the goalkeeper.
Sure we should use data,and the more data the better.

So whenever a team gets a clean sheet, the goalie did it by himself? What if the other team had zero shots on goal, does that qualify for "great prowess of the goalkeeper?"

[Rockman]

Look,I can't understand how the man who is advising against taking things as absolute is himself being accused..
Nevertheless worth noting is you now see the problem with giving a clean sheet more credence than it deserves,which is what happens when one assumes it is an absolute indicator of a stellar defensive unit.

[Paul Marin]

Look,I can't understand how the man who is advising against taking things as absolute is himself being accused..

Explain this in English please. Tenk u.

you now see the problem with giving a clean sheet more credence than it deserves

And how do you come to that conclusion?

[Rockman]

It could be fallacious to conclude from a keeper having a clean sheet that his defense has to be good, as to the choice of word(absolute),I was alluding to a debased sense of right making such a correlation (ie clean sheet means good defense).
Having said that,should I answer your last question?
Clearly the scenarios you mentioned in your post show that having a clean isn't necessarily an absolute indicator of having a solid defensive unit.

[Peter R]

Peter R,Man U had Moyes,Pool had BR,we now have LvG,and Pool has Klopp,do you really think my interest in this has anything to do with friendship?
That is just your way of obfuscating The issue,and there are other evidence of that strategy at play.
It was mere hours ago X posted his Rafa-type facts dossier,I took a position waaay before that,it did not alter, in any way, my opinion,it merely provided confirmation..
I believe it is one of many things to know if one wants to have an informed opinion.
Firstly citing a goal keeper clean sheet record ..as a sure sign of a team having a good defensive unit is misleading.You have, in the past, attributed Man U reversal of misfortune solely to deGea,should we deduce that Man U has a decent defense because of deGea?
City is as good as dead Sunday solely because Arsenal taught my Man U a lesson.Consider Arsenal to be 'other competitions' and the subsequent lesson for Pool is your goalkeeper impressive clean sheet..only provides a false sense of security..
Just how critical is the EPL in determining if you have a worthy defense?

Rock I highlighted four phrases above:

Bear with me... I don't have a great memory so my questions are:

No. 1 - What issue am I obfuscating?

No. 2 - Took what position and confirmed what?

No. 3- When did I say anything was a "sure sign " of anything... Did you see my response to your post where you started out asking to consider : plenty shots and few shots? I ask you to go look at my response. It was last night.

No. 4 - When did I attribute ManU anything "solely to De Gea"?? I have no recollection of such. If you can tell me when or show me where I said that I would appreciate it. I'm not saying he was not a factor but that I do not recall. I DO REMEMBER saying that your recent winning year was due in large part to RvP.

Thanks.

If I may make a point re goalies and defence: - A good defence can make a good goalie look great and similarly a bad defence can make a good goalie look awful AND there are many permutations of that relationship e.g. A bad goalie can make a good defence look bad etc.

One way that a person can decide if over a period of time if a TEAM is defending well is to look at clean sheets. If you want to analyse the goalie there are many stats out there now that break down all kinds of details. If anyone is buying a goalie I'm sure clean sheets is not the only thing they consider, it might be one, but there are goals conceded, saves made, etc. etc.

Let me end by saying that IMO, the clean sheet record of Mignolet last season overall AND in particular this calendar year (in EPL matches because that was our most important competition; the coach could have started a number of bench warmers in other games for example ), indicates that the defence WAS NOT LFC's main problem, if it was one at all. It indicates that the problem was in attack, or goal scoring and the stats will bear that out.

Hope that clarifies MY POSITION.

[Rockman]

Fair comments.