Karl: Academy vs. Schools

[Paul Marin]

Bar those that arent certified, schools will snitch on those that arent , penalise them,points deducted ,like having an overage youth.I vision a systm of slow implementation, where by ISSA gives schools 3 to 5 years for lets says kgn,st andrew,st catherine and mobay schools (high) get certification, the rural schools have an extension , by then we have the certification -saturation system churning them out.

This is where I think you an' puppa Karl miss the whole point - you are starting certifications in the middle - you need to start it "at the start". If a high school coach gets a 12 year old with bad habits, his job is harder. If he gets a 12 year old with good habits, he can continue the child's development. Certification and proper instruction needs to start at elementary ages, not high school ages if long term development is desired...and simply put, schools are not the place to do that. They can cooperate with more appropriate development forums, but to rely on the schools for a national development program is not a stable plan...it is DOA.

[Sir X]

I agree with the developmental issue of teaching at a young age but here is my counter arguement , there is no urge or marketing point in targeting youths at the prep/primary school level,in High schools their is because as you know ,school boy competition ,ole boy bragging rights ,the glory of manning,walker,oliver etc cups/shields.So I choose the practical selling point high school.


Keep in mind as I said each school must have a football philosophy,yes i agree old habits get set in but ,at 11 to 12 entering hogh school, we still have the chance to change bad habits and develop the mind with a philosophy.Capture and nurture those that have not been corrupoted and can be changed.

Schools at this moment is our best avenue,that knowlefge of certifiaction will not stay with the schools ,you know this ,it will spread within communities,coaches will no doubt ,spread that knowlefge all over as independent contractors,soon a standard will be developing and advocated for, knowlefge will increase knowledge to the point where we do have academies.

Its not the place , but it is the practical option, unless you have another(practical) one.

[Bricktop]

at 11 to 12 entering high school, we still have the chance to change bad habits and develop the mind with a philosophy

You are about 6 years late...this is not a joke ting...serious business

[Paul Marin]

I agree with the developmental issue of teaching at a young age but here is my counter arguement , there is no urge or marketing point in targeting youths at the prep/primary school level,in High schools their is because as you know ,school boy competition ,ole boy bragging rights ,the glory of manning,walker,oliver etc cups/shields.So I choose the practical selling point high school.


Keep in mind as I said each school must have a football philosophy,yes i agree old habits get set in but ,at 11 to 12 entering hogh school, we still have the chance to change bad habits and develop the mind with a philosophy.Capture and nurture those that have not been corrupoted and can be changed.

Schools at this moment is our best avenue,that knowlefge of certifiaction will not stay with the schools ,you know this ,it will spread within communities,coaches will no doubt ,spread that knowlefge all over as independent contractors,soon a standard will be developing and advocated for, knowlefge will increase knowledge to the point where we do have academies.

Its not the place , but it is the practical option, unless you have another(practical) one.

Your entire argument is equivalent to:

1. Leroy goes to primary school from age 4-11
2. Leroy is not challenged to read or write in these key developmental years
3. Leroy gets to high school where there is a big writing and reading requirement
4. Leroy's high school teachers are now spending time with Leroy teaching him to read and write; meanwhile, little Olaf in Germany has been challenged since he was 3, is now in high school and is writing prize winning essays at 12.

And you expect Leroy to compete with Olaf? I think you need to rethink your strategy. It won't work because our primary schools can't even afford chalk much less time to certify coaches.

[Sir X]

Again give me your practical solution ?....Keep this is mind

The Leroys qualified for Fifa youth tournaments under a certain Brazilian, when they were way behind the developmental curve.Based on just months of having camps.

How do you know it wont work given that history ? It hasnt been tried, i see nothing with more promise than that.Nothing more cost effective .This academy thing is a pipe dream , that is based on a US /European model.That isnt practical because of the basic issue of funding.

BTW leroy will one day catch up to OLaf and he might write better essays than him.It happens every day in the educational system. You have heard of Diego Coasta, naturally you will rule him out as an anamoly.

Jamaica has alot of that ask Simoes, I think he called them Raw Seals, BTW John Barnes left Jamaica at 13, Fuller left Jamaica at High School , so did Bibi.


Too much history of anamolies doing it , for not trying the practical.I see nothing else cheaper and better or practical.

As per the cost of pri,ary schools affording,Thats where the spreading of knowldge comes from , volunterism , like our T&F system,it works.Knowledge spreading knowledge.

[Karl]

T&F is not a team sport it's an idividual sport. If football was structured in the manner of T&F Tappa would have brought JA to the semis in 98.

Football classes can never be structured along an identical path as those for T&F. There are similar ideas that can be transferred across disciplines by teachers but the lesson plans can never be identical.

What you are suggesting if applied to other disciplines would suggest Botany class plans can be applied to Mathematics call plans. Nutten nuh guh suh! ...your comment on what may have occurred with Tappa and that '98 team does therefore not move down a logical path. ...the mere thought on comparison is 'not on'.

Did you know that all the top players in the world spent a min of eight hours on the field to learn and master the game (at youth level)? Now where does that leave Ja to teach the game (in high schools); in order to compete at the INT'L level?

On the face of your above...that is, taken literally is patently false!
You would first have to explain and compare stage of development of the player. ...and I would still question that "all the top players".

When arguments are being made for pet projects many put forward these broad...eeerrr...sweeping statements that have no basis in facts.

We are comparing the lives of our players say 4 - entry to first school - through 19 - age our kids leave secondary high schools? ...right?

Well I would like you to choose that set of players which you referenced and schedule a typical day (24 hour period) say 12:00 midnight to 12:00 midnight? Thank you!

[Karl]

Track coaches are paid by alumni & sponsors the schools generate. It so happens that JA produces good-to-excellent track coaches via GC Foster & Dennis Johnson's Utech program.

Yes!...and so it can be for football and cricket...and whatever sport.

So now we're to pay for certified football coaches? Why should we do this? The JFF should get GC Foster up to speed with football coaching... for example working with Brazil's Federation for expert assistance

Someone bears the cost. ...but you are on the money when you suggest the JFF should be a driving force behind increasing teacher/coach competence.

Fact: The JFF is currently on a drive to certify coaches.
Here is the problem with that effort:
As I have said before and as Paul's recent foray - (I await his response on 'what he learnt on teaching football?) - those certificates are not worth the paper they are written on as the course add not one little bit to "The how to coach successfully?".

Those certs give needed knowledge on broad concepts but nothing on "the how to apply those concepts within the practical efforts at producing good footballers and good TEAMs". Nothing on "how to teach and educate the kids/students/players on actual play(ing of the game)".

Do we need more evidence than that of the results of our certified coaches' players and teams quality of play? Failures galore! Poor quality play in abundance!

Fact: The quality of play in the MLS is poor...**** poor!
What are the results when our teams play these poor MLS teams?
90+% of the time failure...defeat!

...and our national teams?
Most often failures!

...those are our results gained from sitting at the feet of our 'certified' coaches!

National football development is a job for the JFF.... not schools and alumni financing. If the JFF requires something substantial from schools with active football programs... Show mi di money fuss. Schools are strapped for cash

Unfortunately the JFF has no development plan....except for Plan UB40

National development must be lead...driven by the JFF but it also needs leadership at the affiliate levels...schools, clubs, etc.

Fact: The JFF leaders, as per their results over these last 2 decades, are ignorant on how to improve the football!

Question: How can their mindset...vision and approach be changed for the good (of our football)?

[Sir X]

You should have put it in context .....yes i agree old habits get set in but

[Paul Marin]

Again give me your practical solution ?....Keep this is mind

The Leroys qualified for Fifa youth tournaments under a certain Brazilian, when they were way behind the developmental curve.Based on just months of having camps.

How do you know it wont work given that history ? It hasnt been tried, i see nothing with more promise than that.Nothing more cost effective .This academy thing is a pipe dream , that is based on a US /European model.That isnt practical because of the basic issue of funding.

BTW leroy will one day catch up to OLaf and he might write better essays than him.It happens every day in the educational system. You have heard of Diego Coasta, naturally you will rule him out as an anamoly.

Jamaica has alot of that ask Simoes, I think he called them Raw Seals, BTW John Barnes left Jamaica at 13, Fuller left Jamaica at High School , so did Bibi.


Too much history of anamolies doing it , for not trying the practical.I see nothing else cheaper and better or practical.

As per the cost of pri,ary schools affording,Thats where the spreading of knowldge comes from , volunterism , like our T&F system,it works.Knowledge spreading knowledge.

The system is very simple:

1. Focus on the younger age groups - 4-14, boys and girls
2. Require the existing "professional" clubs to implement coaching certification programs for all age groups -
3. Jff should partner with anybody who will agree to share their curriculum with us and simply stick with that program on a national level
4. Require existing NPL clubs to have teams in each age group from 4-18 along with the men's teams; require players to donate 2 hours a month to helping coach the little ones
5. Run continuing education classes open to all for a national coaching program; as long as they have a 5th form education or higher, they are welcomed to enter the coaching ranks.
6. Have a rolling 3 month cycle with regular breaks for the kids - make sure they play other sports and let them play high school - club season breaks for high school
7. Offer an academy program alternative that is invitation only for high school players during the high school season. An academy doesn't need anything more than a patch of grass...no big building needed. I guarantee the "invitation only" aspect will attract the best players.
8. Don't start it without a commitment to a 5 year budget - Burrell et al need to focus only on raising funds from the private sector. They need to get on a plane and go pitch their vision to Adidas, Nike, Puma etc...not to mention a million other corporate entities that have funds. For example, my 7 year olds just got a sponsorship from a paper company for $2500. All we did was pick up the phone and ask. It was no problem when they heard we were "all volunteer".

There - it done. I have coached 14 seven year olds for free for the last 18 months (i.e. since they were 5); our total capital outlay for the period has been about $50 per child until recently when we have been forced to rent field space. Cyan get cheaper than that - and we are in America. Any questions?

[Assasin]

How dem say you fool fool??? Mi nuh why we love Exec inna technical side of football. Them already doing a **** poor job, leave the technical side to people who can develop it. We need them to do their jobs.

The Clubs are bruk pocket. It is better you do it through community organizations like churches. There are a few clubs who could run such a program but I wouldn't mandate it to the clubs only.

I told you that part of our problem is the input we put in, we keep on saying who is not reaching out to us and who is not doing what, what are we doing.

A single mom called me the other night said her 6 year old son is playing in a church thing and he is very good and want a better program. I told her to call a director for a program and that she could get him in their Pre-Academy development program. I told her to tell him I sent her and he could maybe help her with some financial assistance if needs be, she said to me "I don't care about the financial part, my son is good and I want him in a good program"

I can tell you on a good day if you see our top U9 Academy play Barca have nothing on them.

[Sir X]

Sounds good but why limit certifications to clubs ,most of the youths play competetive football in schools, be it prep,primary or high.Who would offer the academy alternative ,surely not the JFF,the commitment and budget comes from whom, where ?

I was with you up to 6 , anything with funding and budget ,isnt practical, dem bruk, for them to source funding is another joke,i think corporate jamaica has lost hope in them.

I think its easier if ISSA/JFF with a sports college set up an acredited certification program and set mandates - we agree on that

That means private citizens would have to come out of pocket to get certified,schools would in turn hire these newly certified coaches, given the parameters , i gave of slow implementation.

Was it hard for you to admit you agree with some of my ideas...geesh.

Then we can practically implement your 1 to 6 ,incidentally your 1 to 6 mirrors my knowledge on knowledge, voluntarism,love of sport spreading all over the island, even those primary schools who dont have the money who you claim it would not work, would benefit from your idea of 2 hours- sarcasm.

[Paul Marin]

Sounds good but why limit certifications to clubs ,most of the youths play competetive football in schools, be it prep,primary or high.Who would offer the academy alternative ,surely not the JFF,the commitment and budget comes from whom, where ?

I was with you up to 6 , anything with funding and budget ,isnt practical, dem bruk, for them to source funding is another joke,i think corporate jamaica has lost hope in them.

I think its easier if ISSA/JFF with a sports college set up an acredited certification program and set mandates - we agree on that

That means private citizens would have to come out of pocket to get certified,schools would in turn hire these newly certified coaches, given the parameters , i gave of slow implementation.

Was it hard for you to admit you agree with some of my ideas...geesh.

Then we can practically implement your 1 to 6 ,incidentally your 1 to 6 mirrors my knowledge on knowledge, voluntarism,love of sport spreading all over the island, even those primary schools who dont have the money who you claim it would not work, would benefit from your idea of 2 hours- sarcasm.

I would not limit it to anyone. The point is that anyone can get trained on the JFF's chosen system. If they coach at a school - great. The point is that the best players will gravitate towards the clubs and a strong club system is the core of everything. They don't have to be wealthy - look at Estudiantes in Argentina - they consistently produce top professionals and they are one of the least financially able in the country. It is more about their philosophy and commitment to expanding their knowledge. Note that nowhere did I mention schools being part of the core - they can be there, just not the focus.

[Sir X]

Agreed that clubs should be the focus ,but lets be honest the youths are focused in school competitions ,from prep and primary school level.I dont know of any clubs running any competition at that level in Jamaica...Yuh see why looking at the US/European academy thing cant work ?

Our school competition is the only vehicle where youths compete in football,not the clubs! so practically thats' where the obvious focus must be ,not ideally! thats' where we have to develop our adaptive system of an academy.Thats why my focus on accreditation to schools come in, hopefully it spreads to the clubs(youth system of development) through our ingenuity,but the most cost effective practical way, is what I have presented .

The schools must be the focus at this juncture to impart knowledge,it wont be like a euro/ameri/african type,it will be Jamaican

[Assasin]

"Agreed that clubs should be the focus ,but lets be honest the youths are focused in school competitions ,from prep and primary school level.I dont know of any clubs running any competition at that level in Jamaica...Yuh see why looking at the US/European academy thing cant work "

Focus on what? Winning prep school competition?? You can't have development with the primary focus is to win competition for parents and old bwoy pride. That is were we go wrong. Not saying they younger kids can't compete but for skills coach and development coaches you can't put them in that position. They need to focus on strength on weakness of each kid to make them better. An example is a coach may play a kid on left side even though he has no left foot and is very strong on his right. This is for him to develop on his weak game but in high school game, you want to win so you are not thinking about putting a weak left sider on the left side.

[Sir X]

I was having a cognizant conversation with Paul, but since you jump in,which parent or parents is going to spend money to send their youth to an academy,which club is going to invest their own money to develop 3 to 16 y.o youths in an academy setting,we have been waiting post WC98 for the JFF to build one , they wont ,it cost too much and i dont blame them.

The cheapest system we have is the free ,prep and primary school competitions and even that cost alot to the average citizens.

Schools are the focus, not ideally,practically ! it is,to answer your other question about old boy pride,thats something they have to deal with,its not going anywhere.