So once again Carrick has been put on the

[Lazie]

standby list. Carrick should do the sensible thing and walk away from International football, just accept the fact that his style of play isn't what is required by the English national team. No wonder some pundits had Andy Carroll on the plane to Brazil. After South Africa 2010 he have realized that once Scott Parker was picked ahead of him, he had no future in the national team.

I recall after wrapping up the title last season I came across an article with some stats,

"Only four players in the top five European leagues average more passes than Carrick this season (Xavi on 98.9, Arteta on 85.5, Pirlo on 80.4, Yaya Toure on 80.3, Busquets on 79.1 and Carrick on 76.2) which has lead some to claim Carrick’s style of play is not suited to England’s game."


Must big up Lalana, Barley and Sterling for making the team. All 3 were awesome this season. Walker and Townsend from Spurs must be cursing their luck as injury turned their WC dream into a nightmare. Cleverly, always wondered how and why you made the team, but he must be down being there throughout the qualifiers only to fade out at the wrong time.

England squad:

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Celtic), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City).

Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Glen Johnson (Liverpool), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Luke Shaw (Southampton), Chris Smalling (Manchester United).

Midfielders: Ross Barkley (Everton), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Lallana (Southampton), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal).

Attackers: Rickie Lambert (Southampton), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United).

Standby: John Ruddy (Norwich City), Jon Flanagan (Liverpool), John Stones (Everton), Michael Carrick (Manchester United), Tom Cleverley (Manchester United), Andy Carroll (West Ham United), Jermain Defoe (Toronto FC).

[Karl]

Just Carrick!

I think - do not know exactly how you judge players i.e. your thought process as you think on TOP OF THE WORLD players - you get caught in the same trap that snares our JA national teams selectors.

You look at a lower quality competition and consider that best as always being able to successfully compete against the best in higher competitions.

This is the way I look at it -
Football is a game that holds speed premium. It is a simple fact that in a chase to the ball speed is king!!!

The higher quality competition the closer one gets to meeting greatest %age number of players on opposition TEAM having greatest of technical & tactical skills.

Take it to the top level=World Cup - All the players on each TEAM have the technical and tactical skills necessary. The difference maker then becomes speed!

England needs full complement that in all areas are on par with or better than what the coach/manager perceives as, outside of his squad, absolute best there is.

That is why in our local ReggaeBoyz team a Maestro would be a greater and greater liability as we move further and further towards the TOP OF THE WORLD. The question becomes to our selectors; why select an excellent technical player (Maestro), who is awful tactically (Maestro) and with snail pace/speed?

Mosiah and many in JA think Maestro is in!!!

My thinking is our aim can never be the defeating of St. Kitts & Nevis, Cuba, etc...or even Honduras, Costa Rica. Our aim must be to 'walk' with Mexico, USA and upwards quality TEAMs. Guess what *type of players I would go for? ...and yes, *they are in JA and other places in sufficient quantities to make that desired...forget that desired...required TEAM REGGAE BOYZ!!!


*Technically and tactically able with top quality speed who are intelligent enough to be brought up to speed rapidly!!!! Hey it finally comes down to 'the teaching' (inclusive of quality of the scouts/selectors)!!!

...but back to Carrick: Too slow!
Have not seen the England selection yet...but herein lies a problem the current 'look best' (even most productive) England defenders in the EPL - Cahill and Terry - are too slow for the World Cup/not best for the World Cup competition.

...just as My GUNNERS 'big f!@#$%&^king German' is too often a liability as beating him by 'pushing the ball by' and outrunning him or one-two...or turning him and just running away or running of his shoulder and away from him is 'buttah'...so shall a Cahill and a Terry or Lampard or Carrick prove in the World Cup as the quick thinking and faster players he shall meet figures him out in a flash.

btw - An aside: As soon as the African squads realize that it must be TEAM first, through infinity they shall go on a period of ruling the World at the World Cup...and that run of ruling shall be until the other big guns 'steal' enough of their players to bolster their national TEAMs.

[Karl]

Have not yet spent the time to read the full squad...just saw where Lampard is in it.

[Jangle]

I think - do not know exactly how you judge players i.e. your thought process as you think on TOP OF THE WORLD players - you get caught in the same trap that snares our JA national teams selectors.

You look at a lower quality competition and consider that best as always being able to successfully compete against the best in higher competitions.

This is the way I look at it -
Football is a game that holds speed premium. It is a simple fact that in a chase to the ball speed is king!!!

The higher quality competition the closer one gets to meeting greatest %age number of players on opposition TEAM having greatest of technical & tactical skills.

Take it to the top level=World Cup - All the players on each TEAM have the technical and tactical skills necessary. The difference maker then becomes speed!

England needs full complement that in all areas are on par with or better than what the coach/manager perceives as, outside of his squad, absolute best there is.

That is why in our local ReggaeBoyz team a Maestro would be a greater and greater liability as we move further and further towards the TOP OF THE WORLD. The question becomes to our selectors; why select an excellent technical player (Maestro), who is awful tactically (Maestro) and with snail pace/speed?

Mosiah and many in JA think Maestro is in!!!

My thinking is our aim can never be the defeating of St. Kitts & Nevis, Cuba, etc...or even Honduras, Costa Rica. Our aim must be to 'walk' with Mexico, USA and upwards quality TEAMs. Guess what *type of players I would go for? ...and yes, *they are in JA and other places in sufficient quantities to make that desired...forget that desired...required TEAM REGGAE BOYZ!!!


*Technically and tactically able with top quality speed who are intelligent enough to be brought up to speed rapidly!!!! Hey it finally comes down to 'the teaching' (inclusive of quality of the scouts/selectors)!!!

...but back to Carrick: Too slow!
Have not seen the England selection yet...but herein lies a problem the current 'look best' (even most productive) England defenders in the EPL - Cahill and Terry - are too slow for the World Cup/not best for the World Cup competition.

...just as My GUNNERS 'big f!@#$%&^king German' is too often a liability as beating him by 'pushing the ball by' and outrunning him or one-two...or turning him and just running away or running of his shoulder and away from him is 'buttah'...so shall a Cahill and a Terry or Lampard or Carrick prove in the World Cup as the quick thinking and faster players he shall meet figures him out in a flash.

btw - An aside: As soon as the African squads realize that it must be TEAM first, through infinity they shall go on a period of ruling the World at the World Cup...and that run of ruling shall be until the other big guns 'steal' enough of their players to bolster their national TEAMs.

Huh??? What are you trying to say Karl?

[Lazie]

"...but back to Carrick: Too slow! "

Karl, isn't it amazing that the too slow Carrick have the same amount of EPL medals as the current England midfield? Carrick's problem is the way he plays his role he gets overlooked, not even many MU fans appreciate his efforts. Kinda reminds me of Makalalee of Real Madrid. Everyone overlooked his contribution until he went to Chelsea.

[Karl]

"...but back to Carrick: Too slow! "

Karl, isn't it amazing that the too slow Carrick have the same amount of EPL medals as the current England midfield? Carrick's problem is the way he plays his role he gets overlooked, not even many MU fans appreciate his efforts. Kinda reminds me of Makalalee of Real Madrid. Everyone overlooked his contribution until he went to Chelsea.

Don't get hot! Carrick is a very good player. Some past World Cups he would be a good fit. The pace then was slower...but we are talking this World Cup.

He would have met teams where the pace of their game would have just killed him.

[Jangle]

Karl you keep on harping about pace. How do you explain Pirlo's performances in the last WC and the European Cup? Pirlo has never been a speed demon throughout his entire career yet he has always been ranked amongst the best in the world.

[Karl]

Karl you keep on harping about pace. How do you explain Pirlo's performances in the last WC and the European Cup? Pirlo has never been a speed demon throughout his entire career yet he has always been ranked amongst the best in the world.

So tell me do you go with the outlier that wins or the thing that most often wins?

I am not saying an exceptional player such as a Pirlo (I am a fan of his football) cannot be in TOP OF THE WORLD company. ...but all things being equal that player would be 'out'.

Here is what makes Pirlo one within the group of TOP OF THE WORLD players: He has all the other attibutes in abundance - (such would be labeled "compensating factors") - his speed of thought and his speed of foot is fantastic. Those attributes when added to the other necessary skills - tactical awareness and technical qualities - more than make up for his lack of 'speed over ground'. That is how one accounts for a Pirlo's successes.

Pirlo's successes do not disprove the argument that the players one should pursue should have, in TOP OF THE WORLD quality the following:
a) Blinding speed;

b) Great tactical awareness;

c) Great technical skills;

c) Fantastic 'brain'!

d) ...naturally that leads to having TEAM orientation - TEAM 1st, TEAM 2nd, TEAM 3rd...to infinity!!!!

That is the aim...but commonsense tells if you do not have all qualities at the highest of level then compensating factors must be weighed to arrive at best aggregation for TEAM!!!!

Think on it, imagine what would be the case if Pirlo also had 'blinding speed across ground'? In an Italy TEAM such as the other players are opposition TEAMs, their managers and fans would not consider meeting such an Italy TEAM, not a fair fight!!!!

[Lazie]

So tell me do you go with the outlier that wins or the thing that most often wins?

I am not saying an exceptional player such as a Pirlo (I am a fan of his football) cannot be in TOP OF THE WORLD company. ...but all things being equal that player would be 'out'.

Here is what makes Pirlo one within the group of TOP OF THE WORLD players: He has all the other attibutes in abundance - (such would be labeled "compensating factors") - his speed of thought and his speed of foot is fantastic. Those attributes when added to the other necessary skills - tactical awareness and technical qualities - more than make up for his lack of 'speed over ground'. That is how one accounts for a Pirlo's successes.

Pirlo's successes do not disprove the argument that the players one should pursue should have, in TOP OF THE WORLD quality the following:
a) Blinding speed;

b) Great tactical awareness;

c) Great technical skills;

c) Fantastic 'brain'!

d) ...naturally that leads to having TEAM orientation - TEAM 1st, TEAM 2nd, TEAM 3rd...to infinity!!!!

That is the aim...but commonsense tells if you do not have all qualities at the highest of level then compensating factors must be weighed to arrive at best aggregation for TEAM!!!!

Think on it, imagine what would be the case if Pirlo also had 'blinding speed across ground'? In an Italy TEAM such as the other players are opposition TEAMs, their managers and fans would not consider meeting such an Italy TEAM, not a fair fight!!!!

Karl, stop the foolishness. For years Carrick has been overlooked to accommodate Gerrard and Lampard. How is it since Carrick is so inferior with his lack of pace he has more league titles than both players? For years pundits and MU fans have complained about the MU midfield, yet with Carrick playing there MU has been winning?

In 2010 one clown selected Scott Parker ... WTF? Scott Parker ahead of Carrick?

Again, check the quote and tell me how many English players are listed?

Only four players in the top five European leagues average more passes than Carrick this season (Xavi on 98.9, Arteta on 85.5, Pirlo on 80.4, Yaya Toure on 80.3, Busquets on 79.1 and Carrick on 76.2) which has lead some to claim Carrick’s style of play is not suited to England’s game."

[Jangle]

Pirlo's successes do not disprove the argument that the players one should pursue should have, in TOP OF THE WORLD quality the following:
a) Blinding speed;

b) Great tactical awareness;

c) Great technical skills;

c) Fantastic 'brain'!

d) ...naturally that leads to having TEAM orientation - TEAM 1st, TEAM 2nd, TEAM 3rd...to infinity!!!!

That is the aim...but commonsense tells if you do not have all qualities at the highest of level then compensating factors must be weighed to arrive at best aggregation for TEAM!!!!

Think on it, imagine what would be the case if Pirlo also had 'blinding speed across ground'? In an Italy TEAM such as the other players are opposition TEAMs, their managers and fans would not consider meeting such an Italy TEAM, not a fair fight!!!!

Karl ever so often you come with the same foolishness. Tell me which TOP OF THE WORLD midfielder playing right now possess that "blinding speed" that you always talk about.

[Karl]

Karl, stop the foolishness. For years Carrick has been overlooked to accommodate Gerrard and Lampard. How is it since Carrick is so inferior with his lack of pace he has more league titles than both players? For years pundits and MU fans have complained about the MU midfield, yet with Carrick playing there MU has been winning?

I was not one of those who thought Carrick should not have been selected.
So what is your point.

In 2010 one clown selected Scott Parker ... WTF? Scott Parker ahead of Carrick?

Check with your clown!

Again, check the quote and tell me how many English players are listed?

Only four players in the top five European leagues average more passes than Carrick this season (Xavi on 98.9, Arteta on 85.5, Pirlo on 80.4, Yaya Toure on 80.3, Busquets on 79.1 and Carrick on 76.2) which has lead some to claim Carrick’s style of play is not suited to England’s game."

First you need to understand that a country's league on quality met day in day out cannot compare to that met after the prelim rounds of the World Cup. That quality at the World Cup on average is waay above anything that is consistently met in a league.

Second - In my opinion it is an act of madness or display of ignorance for any 'real' football fan to think there is a 'like of like' comparison of a league's quality of play with that that obtains after the prelim round of the World Cup.

Finally - Carrick...today's Carrick...cannot be a good fit in any TEAM that advances beyond the first round/preliminary round of the coming 2014 World Cup. Carrick's best days are behind him.

If that is so, what would be the point of including him when in a league rich with players better at defending and attacking at the highest of levels the selectors have better options?

What would be Carrick's role? Would he be best suited for same once the preliminary stages of the World Cup are behind England?

btw - Narrow your comparison of Carrick's performances to those against *Tottenham, Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and ManCity?

Those are the only TEAMs that can be considered within reasonable reach - not as good by considerable margins of the expected post-preliminary rounds World Cup 2014 TEAMs but in context of the rest of the EPL teams, only TEAMs that can be by stretching of thought-process be considered within reasonable touching distance - (of expected post-preliminary round TEAMs going to the 2014 World Cup).

[Karl]

Karl ever so often you come with the same foolishness. Tell me which TOP OF THE WORLD midfielder playing right now possess that "blinding speed" that you always talk about.

What is the point of the question when I have never said, save about very few players, having 'blinding speed'?

If I must guess at your thought process, may I point out that any thoughts that go down the path that any player to be selected on TEAM with my input must hyave 'blinding speed' is barking up the wrong tree. Simply it implies gross misunderstanding of my take on TOP OF THE WORLD players.

Let me try again to explain my position on selection:
i) Ideal -
a) Blinding speed;

b) Greatest of tactical awareness;

c) Greatest of technical skills;

c) Fantastic 'brain'!

d) ...naturally that leads to having TEAM orientation - TEAM 1st, TEAM 2nd, TEAM 3rd...to infinity!!!!

ii) Practical -
Compensating factors must be taken into consideration as "what is available" is boundary within which selectors have to operate.

It means the selector must have an appreciation for and understanding of what is a TOP OF THE WORLD player and what is a TOP OF THE WORLD TEAM to be able to make best selections.

Case in point on Speed over ground
The selector must be able to observe the speed over ground of top players that his team shall face and be able to compare same with the players within his selection boundaries. If he has not a clue...i.e. he cannot do the abstract - merely look at players at the top level and have great ability at descerning 'real pace across ground' and doing the same for his selection pool...if the selector cannot do that 'abstract comparison' catastrophe awaits.

Such a selector will continue to have a mere 50:50 chance at selecting 'right' player where speed across ground is a measurement.

Hope you now understand what I mean when I list those TOP OF THE WORLD qualities and what I am thinking as I judge type player my TEAM - ReggaeBOYZ, Brazil, England, GUNNERS - needs.

Jangle: You do know there will never be a player who is absolute best in the World in each of the categories -
a) Blinding speed;

b) Great tactical awareness;

c) Great technical skills;

c) Fantastic 'brain'!

d) ...naturally that leads to having TEAM orientation - TEAM 1st, TEAM 2nd, TEAM 3rd...to infinity!!!!

- on a given day? If you understand that then you will be on the way to understanding what I am talking about.

[Jangle]

Karl, I have to concentrate too hard when I read your posts. So correct me if I am wrong. I gather that you are speaking hypothetically about your ideal midfielder? If so, then maybe he hasn't been born yet.

[Karl]

Karl, I have to concentrate too hard when I read your posts. So correct me if I am wrong. I gather that you are speaking hypothetically about your ideal midfielder? If so, then maybe he hasn't been born yet.

There is an ideal. You judge players on how closely you judge them being to the ideal and to actual current quality players and TEAMs.

E.g. The player under review - Carrick.
The context - 2014 World Cup.

Questions:
How does he stack up against players - He shall attack and defend against such players...

...and within TEAM how does he stack up - He has to be seen on role as a part of TEAM attack and defense against such 2014 World Cup TEAMs?

...and the answer is?
Lazie says he should be there! Translates into Lazie says he would expect Carrick to be best fit or best reserve fit in the England squad. He may be right...but I disagree.

...of the current 30 selected: Player Position Caps Club

Joe Hart Goalkeeper 39 Manchester City
Ben Foster Goalkeeper 6 West Brom
Fraser Forster Goalkeeper 1 Celtic

Glen Johnson Defender 50 Liverpool
Gary Cahill Defender 23 Chelsea
Phil Jagielka Defender 24 Everton
Leighton Baines Defender 22 Everton
Chris Smalling Defender 10 Manchester United
Phil Jones Defender 9 Manchester United
Luke Shaw Defender 1 Southampton

Steven Gerrard Midfileder 109 Liverpool
Frank Lampard Midfileder 103 Chelsea
James Milner Midfileder 45 Manchester City
Jack Wilshere Midfielder 15 Arsenal
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain Midfileder 14 Arsenal
Jordan Henderson Midfileder 8 Liverpool
Raheem Sterling Midfileder 2 Liverpool
Ross Barkley Midfielder 3 Everton
Adam Lallana Midfielder 3 Southampton

Wayne Rooney Forward 89 Manchester United
Danny Welbeck Forward 21 Manchester United
Daniel Sturridge Forward 10 Liverpool
Rickie Lambert Forward 4 Southampton

Which midfielder could Carrick replace?
What are the compensating factors that would put him, in this squad, as better fit than any of the named midfielders?

Sterling is good strong defender, wonderful attacker and creator and also a superior goalscorer - He is vey, very fast!

The Ox is greater at attacking and faster. Even as he is not a great goalscorer, he is greater threat on goal than Carrick. Carrick edges him as defender at slow pace/in slower paced games than those to be met at the 2014 World Cup. The players to be faced needs The Ox's-like pace to match or catch them...to be able to put in a decent timely tackle.

Henderson, Lallana and Barkley are at worse on par...but with greater pace. ...and the upside of having greater potential wiggle room to improve as tournament goes on. Carrick is Carrick. He is at the top of his game. What you see is what you get...just no upside/no more to give.

Gerrard, Miller and Lampard are just better players. All are slow...none more so than Lampard. ...but each is a better player than today's Carrick. Greater threat on goal, more mobile and judged on this year's EPL play better TEAM players.

Truth is in my mind - only The Ox could be considered nearest in total quality to Carrick and that for a fleeting thought at displacement to be countenanced. ...and fleeting it must be.

The Ox is faster. Provides greater threat on goal AND is a genuine goalscorer. Better at 'one-on-one' play. Just out and out greater attacker. Shaded on TEAMplay and tactical awareness...but has the potential to improve beyond anything Carrick has on tactics and defending before the tournament ends. Real fast paced attack? Carrick could not keep up. Real fast paced recovery on defense? Carrick cannot catch players The Ox can.

Carrick's compensating factors that would allow him to get into TEAM - None!
End of Story.

[Jangle]

There is an ideal. You judge players on how closely you judge them being to the ideal and to actual current quality players and TEAMs.

Lazie yuh can help out here?