Wenger...

[Karl]

Or just take David Moyes from us.

Yuh wish!!!

[Peter R]

Spurs have done that for a long long time. Wigan also did that for a while. Do I need to go on??? Wenger hasn't done anything special IMO

Those clubs have consistently finished in the top four?? I never knew that

[Warlord]

Those clubs have consistently finished in the top four?? I never knew that

I NEVER said they both consistently finished in the top 4. I simply rebutted Paul's comment that Wenger was a magician and that he did something special. By comparison Spurs, Everton and even Wigan before their drop stayed somewhat competitive in the BPL even though none of them had even a third of the spending power of bigger clubs.

[Paul Marin]

I can't believe we're even discussing this but since we are...let's keep it all tha way real!!! Fabregas was 16 yrs when he got to Arsenal.. that's 100% true but how in tha hell can you compare Barcelona's Youth Player Development Program to Arsenal's is beyond me???

You talk of giving Wenger credit. Give him credit for what exactly??? He didn't unearth Fabregas. Barcelona did!!! Fabregas just couldn't make the first team at the time because they were stacked and decided to let him walk. Their scouts and coaches obviously saw his talent and brought him in very young and developed him. C'mon son Give Barca their due! All Wenger did was play him he didn't unearth him!!!

Viera was around 20 and was in the same position at Milan. He couldn't break their first team because they already had more talented players in his position at the time. Thistype of thing happen every day in professional football. That's why teams get compensated.

Sure on a budget Wenger stayed somewhat competitive. There are other teams that have done the same over a time period, but you cannot WIN titles/chhampionships in professional sports doing that. You have to spend BIG $$$$ to win. That philosophy NEVER changes. Wenger/Arsenal have also been known to be a selling club and because of their idiocy of not holding on to their best talent they almost always ended up on the losing end.

Warlord, this is the single most ridiculous post in the history of the world, and I include all of X's tome in that group. If you can't see it, I can't educate you. For you to say a 16 year old is fully developed ends the argument. The details Karl posted on each of those players is an example of fact, yours is just demagoguery born from frustration. Tan deh tear down Wenger. If y'all had any sense, you'd do everything you can to keep him. Don't worry, your Moyes soon come. Ah den joke ago mek.

[Paul Marin]

I can't believe we're even discussing this but since we are...let's keep it all tha way real!!! Fabregas was 16 yrs when he got to Arsenal.. that's 100% true but how in tha hell can you compare Barcelona's Youth Player Development Program to Arsenal's is beyond me???

You talk of giving Wenger credit. Give him credit for what exactly??? He didn't unearth Fabregas. Barcelona did!!! Fabregas just couldn't make the first team at the time because they were stacked and decided to let him walk. Their scouts and coaches obviously saw his talent and brought him in very young and developed him. C'mon son Give Barca their due! All Wenger did was play him he didn't unearth him!!!

Viera was around 20 and was in the same position at Milan. He couldn't break their first team because they already had more talented players in his position at the time. Thistype of thing happen every day in professional football. That's why teams get compensated.

Sure on a budget Wenger stayed somewhat competitive. There are other teams that have done the same over a time period, but you cannot WIN titles/chhampionships in professional sports doing that. You have to spend BIG $$$$ to win. That philosophy NEVER changes. Wenger/Arsenal have also been known to be a selling club and because of their idiocy of not holding on to their best talent they almost always ended up on the losing end.

And by the way, seriously, how can you say a 16 year old is the finished product? Seriously. Think! Now you are saying "unearthed", but that was not what your original post said, you are changing your argument from "finished product" to "unearthed". Get your argument straight. Which is it?

[Warlord]

Warlord, this is the single most ridiculous post in the history of the world, and I include all of X's tome in that group. If you can't see it, I can't educate you. For you to say a 16 year old is fully developed ends the argument. The details Karl posted on each of those players is an example of fact, yours is just demagoguery born from frustration. Tan deh tear down Wenger. If y'all had any sense, you'd do everything you can to keep him. Don't worry, your Moyes soon come. Ah den joke ago mek.

Paul,

C'mon man, Everybody with common sense knows that a 16 yr old isn't the finished product. When I said *finished product* I referenced the players he inherited that were already established. Berkamp, Parlour, Overmars, Petit and the rest of players that were known to the rest of the world. I didn't think i needed to explain that in detail

All I simply stated was that you have to give Barca their dues for Fabrgegas development even at 16 yrs old because he came through their youth set up. There is a reason why teams get compensated for developing young players. Wenger played him but clearly his talent and vision was already there.

Now as far as Wenger is concerned his 18 year record speaks for itself! It isn't frustation. It is fact that he's a proven loser, poor motivator and tactically inept! He also has a history of alienating players. A young Nicolas Anelka and Adebayor comes to mind but im sure there are more...

No need to keep him anymore.

[Warlord]

And by the way, seriously, how can you say a 16 year old is the finished product? Seriously. Think! Now you are saying "unearthed", but that was not what your original post said, you are changing your argument from "finished product" to "unearthed". Get your argument straight. Which is it?

I already explained this in previous posts. I never changed my point of view. Go back and re-read my comments.

[Peter R]

With all due respect, I don't see that comparison with Arsenal as a valid one.... keeping your team CONSISTENTLY in the top four is something special, IMO.

[Paul Marin]

With all due respect, I don't see that comparison with Arsenal as a valid one.... keeping your team CONSISTENTLY in the top four is something special, IMO.

Peter, don't mind Warlord. He has some kind of frustration he is (mis)directing at Wenger. Keeping Arsenal in the top 4 has been nothing short of miraculous especially when you consider that for the 10 years leading up to 2012/13 season, his NET AVERAGE ANNUAL SPEND was £4.8m!!!!! Seriously! That is fact. See the table below. Magic me seh!!!

[Paul Marin]

Paul,

C'mon man, Everybody with common sense knows that a 16 yr old isn't the finished product. When I said *finished product* I referenced the players he inherited that were already established. Berkamp, Parlour, Overmars, Petit and the rest of players that were known to the rest of the world. I didn't think i needed to explain that in detail

All I simply stated was that you have to give Barca their dues for Fabrgegas development even at 16 yrs old because he came through their youth set up. There is a reason why teams get compensated for developing young players. Wenger played him but clearly his talent and vision was already there.

Now as far as Wenger is concerned his 18 year record speaks for itself! It isn't frustation. It is fact that he's a proven loser, poor motivator and tactically inept! He also has a history of alienating players. A young Nicolas Anelka and Adebayor comes to mind but im sure there are more...

No need to keep him anymore.

"No need to keep him anymore" - be careful what you ask for. Anyway, Parlour should also be scratched from your list. He was in Wenger's youth system as well. Overmars was a joke before Wenger got him, Viera couldn't get game at Milan and Henri was Wenger's youth signing at Monaco. Give Wenger the credit you so quick to give Barca. You have a terrific manager in Wenger when you consider all the facts.