I need the football gurus to explain to me why

[Mosiah]

Points well taken, he is not the best, but he is an epl top 5 forward no doubt. Can't really compare across league apples to apples but the best comparison is that not even in our third rate league not one of our guys (Tuffy included) can post giroud type numbers even against lower opposition in the JPL which just tells you how far we have to go in developing players in the real skill positions and in playing an 'all for one' team concept.

And that is where you are wrong! Tuffy's goals per match far exceeds Giroud's!

These are the current top strikers in the BPL. You still think Giroud is top 5?

L. Suárez
S. Agüero
D. Sturridge
E. Hazard
Y. Touré
L. Rémy
O. Giroud
J. Rodriguez
R. van Persie
R. Lukaku
Negredo
W. Rooney
W. Bony
R. Lambert
A. Ramsey

[OJ]

No sure about your Question Mo. Curthino i s a good player and had a good game. Giroud has done well for Arsenal and like everyone with a gunner log on their chest had a bad game including the manager , the cook and the bus driver... We got a Damion crawford shelling.

[Karl]

No sure about your Question Mo. Curthino i s a good player and had a good game. Giroud has done well for Arsenal and like everyone with a gunner log on their chest had a bad game including the manager , the cook and the bus driver... We got a Damion crawford shelling.

Comparison with TOP OF THE WORLD strikers...and even the EPL's best strikers, e.g. Suarez (who is also the EPL's best creative midfielder), Boney, William, Rooney... - Giroud...perhaps, has had 2 good games all season. The problem for some on-lookers is he has scored in many matches and his poor play in other areas overlooked.

A good striker scores and contributes on possession - e.g. successful pass rate above 85% inclusive of high creation of chances for others; tackles won high 90%; excellent movement - support on attack and defense.

There is a reason why I am enthused with Thomas Muller...and at times have referred to him as Germany's best defender!!!

Giroud's failures on possession are many. He holds the ball and often gives same to the opposition. Most often...most games his mobility is slow and he takes multiple rests (walks about or does not even move at times). He is yet to put on display ability to shoot/pass on goal from outside of the penalty-area...and indeed even from beyond 12 yards out he is woeful.

[OJ]

karl the man has been socring and last i check a striker job is to score.. he has also been holding up the ball.. did he have a bad game.. but this is a Wegner defeat... straight up.

[Mosiah]

Comparison with TOP OF THE WORLD strikers...and even the EPL's best strikers, e.g. Suarez (who is also the EPL's best creative midfielder), Boney, William, Rooney... - Giroud...perhaps, has had 2 good games all season. The problem for some on-lookers is he has scored in many matches and his poor play in other areas overlooked.

A good striker scores and contributes on possession - e.g. successful pass rate above 85% inclusive of high creation of chances for others; tackles won high 90%; excellent movement - support on attack and defense.

There is a reason why I am enthused with Thomas Muller...and at times have referred to him as Germany's best defender!!!

Giroud's failures on possession are many. He holds the ball and often gives same to the opposition. Most often...most games his mobility is slow and he takes multiple rests (walks about or does not even move at times). He is yet to put on display ability to shoot/pass on goal from outside of the penalty-area...and indeed even from beyond 12 yards out he is woeful.

Where are the stats for "he holds the ball and often gives same to the opposition. Most often...most games his mobility is slow and he takes multiple rests (walks about or does not even move at times)"?

[Stonigut]

Mo lets look at the real deal, not the 'feel sey' business only three forwards in the epl have better numbers than giroud, just three, Sturridge, Suarez and Aguero, he is actually number four in the epl right now in terms of production and impact, looking at combination of goals and assists he is number four, yes better than Remy, better than lukaku, better that Rodriguez, better than van persie so far this year.

Tuffy right now is on six goals in eighteen matches, what is that 33percent, come on, giroud is at ten in 23 closer to 50percent and with assists which Tuffy probably have none, he is sitting at close to 67percent. You are killing me with this feel sey business. Giroud best year was 21 goals and nine assists in French ligue one in 38 matches that is batting way up in the high seventy plus close to 80 percent we have never seen any yard player even come close to that in the rspl, mls, manning cup, dacosta cup, Norwegian, Vietnamese, or any league any jamaican has every played in as far as I know.

[Mosiah]

One question - yuh don't have the assist numbers for Tuffy, so how you going to include Giroud's in the comparison? See how stats can try to tell whatever story you want it to tell?

If you want to compare, what's the first rule?!

Okay, then let's look at straight goals. If you want to take a snapshot of Tuffy's year thus far, go ahead. Again that's the danger of stats - you can fix it to tell any story you want to.

How about looking at a longer period? Over the last 2, 3 or 5 years?

How about forgetting the whole thing?

I am okay being in the "feel sey" business, and you are clearly the master statistician. Still trying to figure out yuh combine the stats ting with the snow ting. A your ting dat still!

[Paul Marin]

big coaches like Arsene Wenger and Brendan Rodgers persist with players like Giroud and Coutinho.

For me, Coutinho is a complete waste of time. I can think of NPL players who are just as worthless with their bricky-boo selves but who can at least add some speed to their game.

What are these coaches seeing that I am missing?!?

Mo, I admit this statement of yours has been bugging me. So much so I had to look at the Arsenal game again. Here's what I saw from Coutinho:

Defensively
1. he was like a hawk on the Gunners midfielders - he and Sterling did a great job of this pressing higher up the park and now allowing them to play their game through the midfield
2. he was well positioned, keeping shape when not challenging - again, holding up the arsenal attack (as did Henderson, Sterling and Suarez), playing in front of Gerrard and the back 4.
3. He did a great job covering when Flanagan went up the wing...showing great discipline in staying back to let the full back run - in fact, the second goal game from a corner won by Flanagan where Coutinho stayed and covered.
4. Great work rate - watch him after we were up 4-0, no complacency...but neither did Sterling or Henderson.

Attacking
1. Coutinho set up Sturridge with a sublime pass on the striker's goal (after winning the ball mind u in our end of the park)
2. Coutinho set up Sturridge (via Suarez), (missed shot)
3. Coutinho sublime pass to Henderson (missed shot)
4. Coutinho set up Cissoko (missed shot)
5. Coutinho connected extremely well as a link between Gerrard and the front pair
6. Speed...perfect complement to Sterling, Suarez, Sturridge and Henderson.

The player who has no business on the park with our reds is Flanagan. Just not ready...so lackadaisical and not alert enough for my money. He gave away two stupid free kicks in dangerous areas and made more than a few errant passes, but still, did one or two decent stops too, but not good enough. Also, his positioning is ridiculously off, him just cyan read the game.

And while I think Sterling deservedly was MOTM, Henderson was a critical piece to the puzzle. No one worked harder than him and he was ridiculously effective...harrying Ozil to lose the ball on Sterling's first goal (via Suarez)...all him have to do now is try to learn to finish. He is woeful in that department...as is Coutinho (who had no chances if I recall). Two of them should go to the park and practice striking.

[Mosiah]

I guess you missed my post where I said Coutinho had an outstanding game against Arsenal. I started this thread having not yet seen the game. My apologies to Coutinho and his fans. Prior to this match, however, all I can remember is him dribbling too much and losing the ball. Stoni would be able to back up this "feel sey" with hard numbers!

I have also been very nervous every time Skrtel is about to make a tackle in or around the penalty area. Still am, despite his recent goal-scoring form. Skrtel has always known how to score goals, just that sometimes he doesn't care if it's against his own keeper!

I dare say Skrtel is a better striker than Giroud! Since Christmas, Skrtel has scored 4 goals to Giroud's 3. Feel free to throw in Giroud's assists to bring up his numbers against the defender Skrtel, Stoni!

Ahhhh bwoy! Don't you just love stats! I know I do!

[Stonigut]

Funny stuff. On the assist thing the JPL has decided to not track a key statistic that would make their players even more attractive to foreign clubs.

We have no way to separate the cane juice from the bagasse on the creative side of the ball.

[Karl]

karl the man has been socring

Granted.
...but that never tells the whole story.

My thing/thought is simple - The goals Giroud scores 90% any half-wit would score.

...so would we seek another player of Giroud's limitation? No way!
We need someone of the order of a Thomas Muller, RVP, Wayne Rooney, Berbatov, Boney, Saurez, etc. ...and those are the players we judge Giroud against as we are taking our GUNNERS and we are looking for TOP OF THE WORLD striker.

My other points on him posted elsewhere bear putting into the mix.

...and last i check a striker job is to score.

That is a part of his job.
Strikers lose games by being poor passers or poor defenders or poor movers. However bring the ball to them...particularly as in Giroud's case 12 yards or less out and any dummy striker will score. Bring such chances often and the dummy striker shall has great stats.

he has also been holding up the ball.

Granted he has been holding up the ball...brilliantly at times but he gives it away on those 'holding up of the ball' more often than he retains same or causes his TEAM (makes good pass - to TEAMmate or into or on goal) to retain same.

did he have a bad game..

Absolutely!!!

...and he has had too many bad games in/during GUNNERS wins!!! So it was always a known fact that he is poor...or at the very least not good player/striker. ...and that whenever we meet good TEAMs he would be a liability....tremendous liability!!!

OJ: A coach's task is to see the faults before you play games in they shall hurt you...and he must provide fixes before he plays those games to prevent the hurt!!!

In good times a good coach sees faults and fixes same!!!
Why you ask?!

To prevent loses...future loses!!!

Ever wonder on why Mourinho keeps saying his TEAM shall be better in the next game?

He sees the faults and shall fix before the next game!!!
That man is a 'bad...baaaad coach'...and so is X's Youth Coach!!! Those 2 guys are out of this world - excellent coaches!!!

but this is a Wegner defeat... straight up.

Wenger took the blame. But make no mistake about this besides his failure to land us a forward/striker of the Thomas Muller, RVP, Wayne Rooney, Berbatov, Boney, Saurez, etc. type that loss...had the TEAM down 4 goals within 20 minutes and it could have been 6...is solely the take-the-field X1's fault!

They defended poorly!!! ...and attacked poorly - gave always the ball in bunches!!!

Aside: Mertesacker
- Burned on 2 goals. Burned on not being able to provide assistance on 1 and saved after being burned by Sterling on a chance that Sterling spurned. That chance - it came either before or after the 5th goal - ...Sterling played exactly how I have been preaching on and making astonished comments on why the coaches and players my GUNNERS meet do not use that tactic- A simple 'push around or beyond or above=play in behind over the top (of Mertesacker)
and run!!!!

Mertesacker cannot rundown a tortoise or turtle!

[Sir X]

Coutinho is a work in progress like Sterling,granted sterling is way ahaed of the curve than coutinho,i too worry about coutinho because he was handed with a central role of being the midfield general ,too inconsistent and timid off and on the ball.The youth coach is sticking with him and in the Arsenal game he came through,shinning.I would rather see him give Aspas or Alberto sub time in that position to light a competitive fire in that department,the youth coach hasnt ?

He bullied Wilshire in the middle.!

Coutinho will get better and as Saurez says when Coutinho is on fire ,pool is unstopable,Coutinho seems like he needs his confidence boosted to play a good game,fragile ego,my opinion but hey lets hope he continues in yesterdays vein that was a booster.

I can see what the youth coach is doing with the middle ,it all made sense against Arsenal.His midfield general has to be versatile to dribble,have pace and an eye for the pass.

Mourinho is right about Liverpool.