The ref who didn't ref!

[Karl]

Reputations count for so much in football and Howard Webb will appreciate that when he reads reviews of Sunday's Chelsea v Liverpool game.

When refereeing appointments are made the tenet 'big names for big games' is used and the key to these matches is getting the big decisions right.

At Stamford Bridge Webb failed to make the right call too many times despite being in excellent positions to see incidents clearly.

THE KEY INCIDENTS

Samuel Eto’o should have been dismissed for a shocking, high, studs-up challenge on Jordan Henderson after just two minutes.

Chelsea should have been awarded a penalty when Lucas tripped Eden Hazard – despite Hazard moving his leg towards Lucas to ensure contact.

When John Terry appeared to climb on Luis Suarez there were loud penalty appeals and Webb was for once not well positioned and waved them away. This time he was right as Suarez caused the contact by backing in.

Liverpool should have had a penalty when Eto’o inexplicably tripped Suarez.

Oscar and Lucas should both have been dismissed in the final few minutes when the Chelsea midfielder committed a two-footed lunging tackle on his fellow Brazilian who reacted by grabbing him by the neck. Incredibly Webb, who saw the incident clearly, indicated for play to continue with the ‘advantage’ signal. He was forced to stop play as the fracas escalated and eventually Oscar was cautioned.

Analysis of these incidents points to a poor performance by England’s leading referee but neither manager condemned him which supports Pierluigi Collina’s view of what makes a great man in the middle.

The Italian says that an official has a great reputation if he has earned the right to be regarded as a good referee who has made poor decisions rather than a poor referee.

That Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers wrongly attacked the referee after Liverpool’s previous game and Chelsea chief Jose Mourinho won the Champions League final when Webb was in charge will have helped. But Webb will still not enjoy reviewing the game.

We are the halfway point of the season and Webb has refereed on 16 of the 19 Premier League rounds of fixtures, more than any other ref.

He is yet to award a penalty or send a player off in the top division despite having plenty of opportunities to do both.

It could be that World Cup selection is affecting him and he is perhaps trying to avoid controversy in the build-up to Brazil 2014 - the list of referees for the tournament will be announced in May.

Referees believe that you are remembered for decisions you make and not those you ‘miss’. That is only true for a limited period, as is a reputation for being a great referee.

Webb now needs to review his approach and prove one last tenet – form is temporary, class is permanent.

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[Tilla]

Rubbish article!

Whoever wrote it is ignoring one important factor in the FIFA rules. The ref has to call the game how he sees it and according to his judgement.

[Rockman]

I do remember you asserting Man U fans are incapable of being objective,I just want you to remember that Tilla.

[Paul Marin]

Rubbish article!

Whoever wrote it is ignoring one important factor in the FIFA rules. The ref has to call the game how he sees it and according to his judgement.

Tilla - are you smoking crack! The article is looking at the calls objectively with the assumption that the examples the writer is giving are obvious enough to be widely agreed upon further stating that Webb was well positioned in most cases.

The rest of us can disagree with him, but that doesn't mean the author can't take a position on each incident. Personally, the only things I disagree with are that he is taking a huge leap in hypothesizing why Webb made these mistakes and secondly, stating that Hazard's dive should have resulted in a penalty.

No matter what Webb may have seen in his judgment, he will still be evaluated based on what others saw and interpreted. I only have to point to De Jong's karate kick on Alonso in the World Cup finals to give credence to the author's assessment of Webb's performance. Imho, Webb - plain and simple - is a coward (and biased too).

[Tilla]

I do remember you asserting Man U fans are incapable of being objective,I just want you to remember that Tilla.

Show me the evidence of that Rockman. I cannot recall making any such assertion. I am never one to lump people in a group and categorize them as this or that.

Also why am I not being objective? Because I have pointed out that these people are overlooking the point that the calls can only be made if in the opinion of the referee he judges them to be fouls? That is not my position boss, it is from the FIFA Laws Of The Game.

[Bricktop]

He is yet to award a penalty or send a player off in the top division despite having plenty of opportunities to do both.

And? We don't tune in to see red cards and penalties...we want to see the teams battle it out in open play

[Tilla]

Paul, I do not smoke cigarettes, spliff, crack or anything.

That said, as I said in my previous post, the writer of said article is entitled to his opinion. His opinion however does not change the fact that FIFA Laws Of The Game say that it is only a foul if in the opinion of the referee, "a player commits any of the seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force". So irrespective what those writers want to write to sell papers, unless the referee sees it as a foul, it matters not what they want to write it is not a foul.

I only stick to the facts boss, I do not ride the emotional train like you seem to do.

[Paul Marin]

And? We don't tune in to see red cards and penalties...we want to see the teams battle it out in open play

That is irrelevant. Refs are supposed to be impartial and apply the laws fairly, even if that means dispensing red cards etc. and frigging up the battle for the rest of us. In other words - FAIRNESS - is the reason the ref is there...not to entertain us.

[Paul Marin]

Paul, I do not smoke cigarettes, spliff, crack or anything.

That said, as I said in my previous post, the writer of said article is entitled to his opinion. His opinion however does not change the fact that FIFA Laws Of The Game say that it is only a foul if in the opinion of the referee, "a player commits any of the seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force". So irrespective what those writers want to write to sell papers, unless the referee sees it as a foul, it matters not what they want to write it is not a foul.

I only stick to the facts boss, I do not ride the emotional train like you seem to do.

You are still missing the point. If a referee is applying the laws of the game properly, then his interpretation of an incident should be justifiable when held to scrutiny. How then can you explain Ba's face being kicked off and the offender not being red carded? The point is that even though the ref may have an opinion - and be therefore operating well within the laws of the game (which is a given) - it doesn't mean his interpretation was right.

[Bricktop]

if it is a questionable red card or penalty decision, he is deciding to let the play go on...nothing wrong with that...good reffing that...

[Rockman]

I was the thread in which you found it necessary to say Westman is the only Man U fan that can be objective.
Regarding the referee,it is said he chose to ignore what he saw,hence his judgement is suspect.
Citing the rule book does not address that crucial issue,and you probably know that but chose to ignore it,why?
It has to be because you are a Chelsea fan.

[Tilla]

I never said his interpretation of the call was correct. I challange you to show me where I said that? Cho man, mi tink mi hear seh you did goh good school (JC).

Anyway Paul, this is my last piece on this. As long as humans are in a position to make calls on games, there will be errors. This is certain as night follows day. . . Us humans are not perfect, the system of judging is not perfect and we are aware of that when we walk into the arena. Well thinking fans will therefore take the results with some solace, knowing that they tried their best, but the system just did not work in their favor this time.

As I said before, the referee, two assistants and a 4th official did not pick up Suarez grabbing Ivanovich's arm and planting his set of 32 on it. And although the evidence was there to see, the officials refrained from making the call as they did not see it first hand. While Suarez should have been sent off, we accepted the fact that this is the system we play with and we moved have on, even with him coming back after the incident to score a goal and draw the match, thus earning you guys a point. I can only encourage you and Liverpool to try and put the officials' errors behind you and move onto the next game. Harping over what should have been or could have been is not going to help you going forward.

[Tilla]

I should add one more thing to that. I think Chelsea ball you guys on Sunday and deserved to win. So as much as there might have been some bad calls on both sides of the fence, I think it was a fair result at the end of the day.

[Paul Marin]

I never said his interpretation of the call was correct. I challange you to show me where I said that? Cho man, mi tink mi hear seh you did goh good school (JC).

Anyway Paul, this is my last piece on this. As long as humans are in a position to make calls on games, there will be errors. This is certain as night follows day. . . Us humans are not perfect, the system of judging is not perfect and we are aware of that when we walk into the arena. Well thinking fans will therefore take the results with some solace, knowing that they tried their best, but the system just did not work in their favor this time.

As I said before, the referee, two assistants and a 4th official did not pick up Suarez grabbing Ivanovich's arm and planting his set of 32 on it. And although the evidence was there to see, the officials refrained from making the call as they did not see it first hand. While Suarez should have been sent off, we accepted the fact that this is the system we play with and we moved have on, even with him coming back after the incident to score a goal and draw the match, thus earning you guys a point. I can only encourage you and Liverpool to try and put the officials' errors behind you and move onto the next game. Harping over what should have been or could have been is not going to help you going forward.

You still don't get the point. No one is saying you said the call was correct. The point is that IT WASNT - BY ANY OBJECTIVE MEASURE. Everything else that you are saying is not relevant to the core argument which is that the ref made a mistake (which I get the laws allow him to make), but that doesn't make his call right. Nothing more complicated than that.

[Tilla]

The point is that IT WASNT - BY ANY OBJECTIVE MEASURE.

What sort of objective measure you expect here Paul? The officiating is what it is. It is not perfect and referees make mistakes. Once the mistake is made, we move on. That is the game we follow. What other sort of objective measure you want, unless you expect the referees to start calling time outs and reviewing plays?

Anyway, try settle down and come back to reality Paul. The process of officiating has been imperfect for eons, it did not just happen yesterday. I am sure you can go back and spot games upon games where you team benefited immensely from referee non-calls. It is sad that now the call may seem to benefit the other side, you are up in arms over it. Get over it!!