Captain time fi pack yuh Grip an Goooooooo

[Muadib]

Look like yuh nuh watch Vampiyah movie too tuff.. dem live long !!

Probably will outlive yuh !

[Muadib]

Peter Phillips would not agree... unless you think Haitianization is a good ting ..

[HL]

Look like yuh watch Vampiyah movie too tuff.. dem live long !!

Probably will outlive yuh !

funny indeed!!

[Don1]

Look like yuh nuh watch Vampiyah movie too tuff.. dem live long !!

Probably will outlive yuh !

yuh ah get pon mi last rite now

[Rockman]

The inventors of planes were only barely able to gdt their crude craft a few feet off the ground,they are all dead now but what they started.....
Don 1,Seaga(like him or not) is in my opinion a viable option.

[Don1]

The inventors of planes were only barely able to gdt their crude craft a few feet off the ground,they are all dead now but what they started.....
Don 1,Seaga(like him or not) is in my opinion a viable option.

Understood.. although I don't see the relevance of the Wright brothers to an octogenarian Vampiya

[Karl]

The JFF needs vigorous & visionary leadership so that they can see that which is obvious and right in front of their nose i.e. the key going forward is NOT a short term focus on trying to qualify for a World Cup... but building a foundation at the youth level from whence true development will flow itinually

Don1: Sometimes I just do not understand you.

What is short-term about -

a focus on trying to qualify for a World Cup?

...the key going forward is NOT a short term focus on trying to qualify for a World Cup - In the context used it is an oxymoron.

It is either you do not recognize that:

i) By definition qualifying for a World Cup requires long term focus.
- It takes at least 8 years of top quality work on creating a national team that realistically gives hope at qualifying for a World Cup Final tournament.

- Reggae Boyz '98 qualifying took sustained work on development of our local players previous to joining our national squad. For each player the work took at least 10 years for developing the (then) skills that got each in the national squad.

- Our 'overseas' players also went through a long period of developing their skills.

- There was an additional 4 sustained years of the core group playing friendly and qualifying games...culminating in that November 16, 1997 day the Reggae Boyz drew 0-0 with Mexico at 'The Office'.


Perhaps you are taking the same mistaken view of some within the JFF that it was the mere 4 years - (1994 - 1998) - of the national team's intense period of competition being the sole reason our Reggae Boyz made it to the World Cup.

Unfortunately that view is one of being not able to see (cannot see) the forest for the trees. Being caught up in small details such that there is a failure to understand the bigger picture.

The real lesson from our efforts at that 1998 qualification for the World Cup was of opportunities previously lost. A realization of the years squandered by failure to work at perpetual renewal...a recognition of year over year failure to sensibly and expansively work at player development.

...or...

ii) Perhaps you recognize all of the above (and more) but mistakenly believe that it is impossible to "walk and whistle at the same time"?

It is paramount that our national team be given all the support tools to make a serious run at 2018 qualification...even as the youth development for which you call commences. It is not a one or the other. It is full speed ahead...FULL 100 effort on both - development of quality national TEAMs and youth development - as perpetual renewal kicks in now to continue on forevermore.

[Don1]

=Karl;453727]Don1: Sometimes I just do not understand you.

What is short-term about - a focus on trying to qualify for a World Cup?

...the key going forward is NOT a short term focus on trying to qualify for a World Cup - In the context used it is an oxymoron.

The fact that you and others such as the backward JFF leadership don't yet realize that prioritizing WCQ as the primary mission of JA football constitutes myopic thinking is baffling

That article on what Belgium did should be instructive about the benefits of long term thinking. They stopped worrying about WCQ and importing players, focused on youth development, developed a consistent football playing style at all levels..... and a few years later they reap the benefits

It's time Jamaica wakes up and smells the coco tea

It is either you do not recognize that:

i) By definition qualifying for a World Cup requires long term focus.
- It takes at least 8 years of top quality work on creating a national team that realistically gives hope at qualifying for a World Cup Final tournament.

This may be so in other jurisdictions but clearly is not applicable to Jamaica

FYI Jamaica has no organized long term development program in place

- Reggae Boyz '98 qualifying took sustained work on development of our local players previous to joining our national squad. For each player the work took at least 10 years for developing the (then) skills that got each in the national squad.

To equate the work local players did before 1994 (when Simoes arrived) with "sustained development" is beyond ludicrous.
Out of an abundance of respect for you I won't say any more

- Our 'overseas' players also went through a long period of developing their skills.

Hmmmm

- There was an additional 4 sustained years of the core group playing friendly and qualifying games...culminating in that November 16, 1997 day the Reggae Boyz drew 0-0 with Mexico at 'The Office'.

This is correct....but it's also a short term plan which was successful... but it left no self-sustaining development base

Having done that short term work and proven Jamaica worthy of great heights... it's time to do the heavy work of long term & sustainable development

Perhaps you are taking the same mistaken view of some within the JFF that it was the mere 4 years - (1994 - 1998) - of the national team's intense period of competition being the sole reason our Reggae Boyz made it to the World Cup.

That 4 year period was undoubtedly the key factor in WCQ.
Jamaica's 1998 WCQ occurred DESPITE the inadequacy of player's development program prior to 1994

Unfortunately that view is one of being not able to see (cannot see) the forest for the trees. Being caught up in small details such that there is a failure to understand the bigger picture.

You are wrong.... so wrong that words cannot explain

[

I]The real lesson from our efforts at that 1998 qualification for the World Cup was of opportunities previously lost. A realization of the years squandered by failure to work at perpetual renewal...a recognition of year over year failure to sensibly and expansively work at player development. [/I]

One can take that negative view... but for me the key lesson of 1998 WCQ is that a team built around a hugely exposed local core group with the support of a limited number of hugely committed, skilled expats... is a winning formula

ii) Perhaps you recognize all of the above (and more) but mistakenly believe that it is impossible to "walk and whistle at the same time"?

What I recognize is that the JFF policy of singled-mindedly focusing on WCQ while ignoring local development is myopic, failed... and must be changed

It is paramount that our national team be given all the support tools to make a serious run at 2018 qualification...even as the youth development for which you call commences. It is not a one or the other. It is full speed ahead...FULL 100 effort on both - development of quality national TEAMs and youth development - as perpetual renewal kicks in now to continue on forevermore.

The notion of "full steam ahead on ALL fronts" is a feature of your posts.

While this notion sounds great as an aspiration.... it clearly ignores Jamaica's severe resource constraints which makes resource PRIORITIZATION paramount... this is not the USA we're talking about with their virtually unlimited resources (remember the US prints hard currency...Jamaica prints scrip )

Since that is Jamaica's reality the "full steam ahead on ALL fronts" notion is specious and impractical. Jamaica is forced to choose what to focus on

[Karl]

The fact that you and others such as the backward JFF leadership don't yet realize that prioritizing WCQ as the primary mission of JA football constitutes myopic thinking is baffling

That article on what Belgium did should be instructive about the benefits of long term thinking. They stopped worrying about WCQ and importing players, focused on youth development, developed a consistent football playing style at all levels..... and a few years later they reap the benefits

It's time Jamaica wakes up and smells the coco tea



This may be so in other jurisdictions but clearly is not applicable to Jamaica

FYI Jamaica has no organized long term development program in place



To equate the work local players did before 1994 (when Simoes arrived) with "sustained development" is beyond ludicrous.
Out of an abundance of respect for you I won't say any more



Hmmmm



This is correct....but it's also a short term plan which was successful... but it left no self-sustaining development base

Having done that short term work and proven Jamaica worthy of great heights... it's time to do the heavy work of long term & sustainable development



That 4 year period was undoubtedly the key factor in WCQ.
Jamaica's 1998 WCQ occurred DESPITE the inadequacy of player's development program prior to 1994



You are wrong.... so wrong that words cannot explain

[

One can take that negative view... but for me the key lesson of 1998 WCQ is that a team built around a hugely exposed local core group with the support of a limited number of hugely committed, skilled expats... is a winning formula



What I recognize is that the JFF policy of singled-mindedly focusing on WCQ while ignoring local development is myopic, failed... and must be changed

When one ignores the unnecessary sleight of hand all you have said before comes down to that single sensible sentence -
JFF policy of singled-mindedly focusing on WCQ while ignoring local development is myopic, failed...and must be changed .

That is exactly my point.
Sole focus on performance on the national team during qualifications for a World Cup was and is foolish.

The alternative suggested is, development of youth and national team development programs. National team development programs=programs for development of quality national teams'.

Which brings us to

The notion of "full steam ahead on ALL fronts" is a feature of your posts.

Don1: While this notion sounds great as an aspiration.

The answer: It is the blind who cannot see that is the only way to go.

Don1 (You further say): ...it clearly ignores Jamaica's severe resource constraints which makes resource PRIORITIZATION paramount... this is not the USA we're talking about with their virtually unlimited resources (remember the US prints hard currency...Jamaica prints scrip )

That is a parroting of what our politicians have always said. That is the defeatist nonsense pushed down our throats and if we cannot see it for what it is, failed path, then perhaps that is how we have descended into thinking that we deserve to be perpetual underperformers.

We need to get away from such nonsense. The perpetual renewal of our national teams and youth development are inextricably linked.

Who on increasing acquiring of skills and maturity...on development...moves into our national teams?

The answer: Our young.

How then can you scrap or delay national teams creation and development of increasing competences?

The answer: You do not. What you do is create quality national teams and increase competences.

National TEAMs should be result that follow on availability of consistent year over year youth development. ...but merely putting bodies on the field cannot be the aim.

A recognition of potential outgrowth from an excellent youth development program and fielding excellent national teams should cause scales to be removed from the eyes of those who propose one without the other...creation of best possible youth development program or creation of best possible national teams.

Of course we are not the USA.

The failed expressions below -

Since that is Jamaica's reality (i.e. restriction of capacity to move "full stream ahead on ALL fronts) then the "full steam ahead on ALL fronts" notion is specious and impractical. Jamaica is forced to choose what to focus on

- on our reality is just that...an outlook that has always led to failures. It is regurgitation of utterances that has us where we are. A self-imposed 'mental slavery'.

Our reality is what we make it. We can either re-engage on that failed much tried self-imposed mental handcuff that has us engaging in half measures or a reality based on full use of our abilities...a moving forward at full steam ahead.

There is no earthly reason why, with division of labour a fact of life, we cannot institute a great youth development program and field, in each succeeding year, increasingly more competent national teams.

A review of our past efforts (inclusive of those 1994 - 1998 years) at developing football successes show failure to properly formulate policy and work at sensibly thought-out programs.

[Don1]

=Karl;453891]When one ignores the unnecessary sleight of hand all you have said before comes down to that single sensible sentence -
JFF policy of singled-mindedly focusing on WCQ while ignoring local development is myopic, failed...and must be changed .

That is exactly my point.
Sole focus on performance on the national team during qualifications for a World Cup was and is foolish.

The alternative suggested is, development of youth and national team development programs. National team development programs=programs for development of quality national teams'.

Very happy you agree

Which brings us to Quote:
The notion of "full steam ahead on ALL fronts" is a feature of your posts.

Don1: While this notion sounds great as an aspiration.

The answer: It is the blind who cannot see that is the only way to go.

Both the blind and lack of funds will ensure that's not the way to go

Don1 (You further say): ...it clearly ignores Jamaica's severe resource constraints which makes resource PRIORITIZATION paramount... this is not the USA we're talking about with their virtually unlimited resources (remember the US prints hard currency...Jamaica prints scrip )

That is a parroting of what our politicians have always said. That is the defeatist nonsense pushed down our throats and if we cannot see it for what it is, failed path, then perhaps that is how we have descended into thinking that we deserve to be perpetual underperformers.

We need to get away from such nonsense. The perpetual renewal of our national teams and youth development are inextricably linked.

Don1 nuh parrot politician... mi bun dem out... neva figget dat

Who on increasing acquiring of skills and maturity...on development...moves into our national teams?

The answer: Our young.

How then can you scrap or delay national teams creation and development of increasing competences?

The answer: You do not. What you do is create quality national teams and increase competences.

National TEAMs should be result that follow on availability of consistent year over year youth development. ...but merely putting bodies on the field cannot be the aim.

A recognition of potential outgrowth from an excellent youth development program and fielding excellent national teams should cause scales to be removed from the eyes of those who propose one without the other...creation of best possible youth development program or creation of best possible national teams.

This is correct

However you support "always putting the best on the field" and "getting the best players to play for the RBZ wherever they come from".... this is a myopic approach which clearly victimizes young, developing players by denying them exposure they need to improve.

You, the JFF and other Jamaicans need to learn how to DEFER THE INSTANT GRATIFICATION that may come from using the so called "best" players all the time... especially if the so called best players are players who know nothing of Jamaica or its football

Following that myopic approach is anti-development as as well as shortsighted ... as we've seen for 15 years

Time to learn that Belgian lesson of biting the bullet and looking ahead instead of following your nose

Of course we are not the USA.

The failed expressions below -


- on our reality is just that...an outlook that has always led to failures. It is regurgitation of utterances that has us where we are. A self-imposed 'mental slavery'.

Our reality is what we make it. We can either re-engage on that failed much tried self-imposed mental handcuff that has us engaging in half measures or a reality based on full use of our abilities...a moving forward at full steam ahead

.

Sorry but I believe in workable, practical solutions... not half baked flights of fancy inspired by delusions of grandeur

There is no earthly reason why, with division of labour a fact of life, we cannot institute a great youth development program and field, in each succeeding year, increasingly more competent national teams.

A review of our past efforts (inclusive of those 1994 - 1998 years) at developing football successes show failure to properly formulate policy and work at sensibly thought-out programs.

Yes... so our paradigm must be changed.

Youth development must be prioritized at the top of the resource chain.... with WCQ being an important but entirely secondary mission. The youth programs will organically produce competitive teams...but only if we're patient and avoid the foreign shortcuts you and others promote

Learn to defer the Fool's Gold of instant gratification from others more evolved... Belgium for example

[Karl]

However you support "always putting the best on the field" and "getting the best players to play for the RBZ wherever they come from".... this is a myopic approach which clearly victimizes young, developing players by denying them exposure they need to improve.

You, the JFF and other Jamaicans need to learn how to DEFER THE INSTANT GRATIFICATION that may come from using the so called "best" players all the time... especially if the so called best players are players who know nothing of Jamaica or its football

Following that myopic approach is anti-development as as well as shortsighted ... as we've seen for 15 years

Time to learn that Belgian lesson of biting the bullet and looking ahead instead of following your nose
.

Sorry but I believe in workable, practical solutions... not half baked flights of fancy inspired by delusions of grandeur

The above shows you lack understanding on the way forward being advocated.

Of course I support always putting the best available players on the field. That is within the strictures of excellent local youth development.

If you understood the concept of perpetual renewal you would immediately grasp that it is the national age-group teams that are our first rung national teams.

It is impossible to fill such teams with players outside of the island as in terms of technical skills it has been repeatedly seen that our players at home at say,
U-12 through U-17 are on par with world's best in terms of technical ability. It is as TEAM that we falter.

There is every reason to believe that introduction to quality teaching/learning environment our national age-group TEAMs would join the world's top quality age-group TEAMs rank .

It would be just about impossible both on logistics of player movement, costs and on technical ability for age-group players outside of the island to join those age-group national teams. The best available players are to be found at home.

You do realize that -
i) it is from the age-group (U-12 through U-17 plus U-20) that there shall exist high volume numbers year over year - (similar to the high volume year over year progression of students in our schools) - being developed in any local youth development program?

ii) on the creation and establishment of quality Youth Development Program and operation of same outstanding (products) players 16 through 20 year old, mainly from national age-group teams and additionally lower numbers from local club teams who progress through international competitions that shall attract the attention of international professional clubs?

It is from those fortunate to continue development and maturity in professional clubs outside of the island who shall form the majority on our national senior teams?

As the life of a quality local Youth Development Program matures increasingly members of the national senior team shall be drawn from professional clubs outside of the island aping say, Brazil's use of its overseas professionals.

It is a matter of player development...and a natural outgrowth i.e. player life cycle - age-group through top professional - that shall ensure continuous renewal=perpetual renewal.

We are not as large as a Brazil and thus will not have comparable player pool depth at the height of our (impending) successful development of quality players (of top quality senior players remaining at home) playing in our local leagues.

Greater opportunities would exist for top quality adult players from outside of the island to represent the senior national teams when compared with the limited opportunities for places on our age-group national teams.

Even so, competition for places by those adult players who are products of outside programs would be determined by successes of the Youth Development Program - efficiencies within that Youth Development Program and thus the quality of graduates and their continued development in overseas professional leagues.

So..."Best available players" for our national teams?

Yup! The only way to go as we seek our place among football's elite and all the perks that come with that.

-----

There is nothing short-sighted about such a development process that would lead to creation of top quality players and top quality national teams. Such a process is for the long haul..it should continue ad infinitum.

Immediate gratification?
Hah!!! The aim is long term joy...continuous rapture as Brazil's fans enjoy and her football industry reaps.

[Don1]

=Karl;453959]The above shows you lack understanding on the way forward being advocated.

Of course I support always putting the best available players on the field. That is within the strictures of excellent local youth development.

I isolate this section as it's the key component of your position... the rest of your post is a windy derivative of it

This is the irreconcilable contradiction of your approach....

1. Clearly there's no structured youth development to generate the "best players" you seek. So logic dictates that said youth development should be the priority ...not the instant gratification of WCQ ...

This is true only IF one truly believes that youths are the way forward... as the Belgians did (I notice you cannot address the Belgian example I advanced several times)

2. Your support for importing massive numbers of last minute snow ballas because they may be the "best players" in your judgment (at one point 80% of on field players during the past WCQ) contradicts your argument for a youth focus.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too Karl... one has to choose a course when it comes to POLICY options.

Slow cooking youth development OR a hurry-come-up team of imported strangers?? ...

That hurry-come-up policy option has failed at the task of WCQ AND also inhibits youth development by denying them high level exposure

Sensible people will see that as the worst outcome possible

[Muadib]

Hold on.. is young players yuh waan put pon di field for World Cup Qualifying ??

Ah wheh di ?!

Our prablem area is 8 to 16.. mi tink dem age deh kinda young fi play fi Senior side..

[Muadib]

<It is impossible to fill such teams with players outside of the island as in terms of technical skills it has been repeatedly seen that our players at home at say,
U-12 through U-17 are on par with world's best in terms of technical ability. It is as TEAM that we falter.>

Lol ! Woieeee !!

Delusion is a hell of a ting. Tell dat to Belize Under-15 and Di Jamaican Under-15 Coach.. Fabulous..

Full time you get real.. di PNP ting mi can unnastan dat is yuh Religion.. but dis football denial nuh neccessary..

The REALITY:

<Jamaica's under-15 head coach, Fabian Davis, has expressed disappointment with how underdeveloped the youngsters coming into the national set-up are at this age.>

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2.../sports12.html

[Don1]

Really?? 8-16 ah di problem??

That's a great basis for the incompetents to advocate abolishing Manning Cup where probably 90% of the players are >16