What was this Jamaican ref thinking??

[Bricktop]

Good call by the ref...defender would have cleared that shot...

[Peter R]

S/B .. "not true"

[Gamma]

An sight him and have him under surveillance

[Karl]

Karl,

Note true that the goalie was the last defender when the infraction occurred. He was, on the initial head out which went to the opponent, but a defender kept his run and WAS behind the goalie when he handled the ball... AND as Paul pointed out the ball was shot straight into the man's chest.

See it here: Go to minute 54 +. The overhead shot on the replay shows the defender CLEARLY behind the keeper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgjft1n9ZEs

Guess I did a poor job of explaining myself...or it is, I just do not understand what you are saying or your point...

[Karl]

...you do know that it is possible that the goalkeeper at times become the last out-defender but one? i.e. 2nd-to-last defender?

(...and just to cover all bases - Sure the goalkeeper could also have 2 or more other defenders behind him/her both inside and outside of the penalty-area!)

[Bricktop]

Karl...you see where the defender is when the ball is handled?

[Karl]

Karl...you see where the defender is when the ball is handled?

Yes!
...and?

[Bricktop]

...the goalkeeper was not the last defender...what is an "out defender"?

[Karl]

...the goalkeeper was not the last defender...what is an "out defender"?

'Out-defender' is a slang coined by me to describe the defenders who cannot use their hands inside the penalty-area without committing an offense (penal offense i.e. hand ball).

However in this case I think the referee was merely calling an offense committed by a defender against an attack which in his opinion was worthy only of a caution. ...and I made a defense of the ref by saying similar offenses have been called by other refs in similar circumstance.

I think a problem was caused because I differentiated 'outfielders' from the goalkeeper when it was not necessary to do so. On reflection, I should have just referenced the goalkeeper in this instance as 'the second last defender' or 'last defender but one'. He was second defender nearest to his goal.

NB: It has been most often that where expulsions have been given for 'preventing a goal-scoring opportunity' it is usually the last defender but one who commits the offense. Most often 'the but one' is Mr. Defender Goalkeeper.

Goalkeepers are merely defenders who can legally handle the ball in the penalty-area. It is usually rare for the goalkeeper to be the second last defender. Goalkeepers are instinctively and often considered as last defender/last line of defense when reality is, at times during play the goalkeeper is not the last defender.

[Peter R]

Ok. So now that it is agreed he was not the last man, and having seen the video ( I assume), did the ref make the right call?

[Karl]

Ok. So now that it is agreed he was not the last man, and having seen the video ( I assume), did the ref make the right call?

I have seen refs in other high profile matches make a similar call!

[Paul Marin]

Ok. So now that it is agreed he was not the last man, and having seen the video ( I assume), did the ref make the right call?

Peter, don't mind Karl, he is twisting himself up in non-committal semantics, so much so that he might get himself landed in Bellevue. Karl differentiates between the goalkeeper and other defenders unnecessarily. I believe he did this because most professional infractions *clearly* denying a goal scoring opportunity are by the last outfield defender, not the goalkeeper and usually for a foul. The law book is very clear - it is a RED card if the REF BELIEVES the defender committed an infraction that denied the attacking team a clear goal scoring opportunity. Well, Campbell obviously didn't think it was a clear opportunity as indicated by him issuing only a yellow. Some of us agree with him and have put forth evidence like Bricktop's photo. Unfortunately, for those who don't agree, I have seen no sanguine explanation or evidence supporting their position...until then, I stand with Campbell.

On a related note, the analysts in this gold cup have been pathetic. I heard one of them say that the ref should have called a hand ball infraction because "intent didn't matter". And I think it was Coby Jones riding shotgun on this game saying that this was a clear red card. KMT.

[Peter R]

I'm watching the T&T v Mexico match on TV but vipbox.tv commentary is better.... problem is they are out of sync by about six seconds...