Old...but interesting article about

[Paul Marin]

the inner city divide in American soccer. I don't think anything has changed since this article was written in 2005.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2005/jun/17/ussport.football

[GazX]

PM, Do you think the situation with urban football/soccer development and african americans mirrors the situation of African Americans in re: to tennis?

Not sure what the take-up or participation rates of tennis is amonst African Americans since Williams sisters broke, or if it has made any significant difference to the sport and its take-up in urban areas.

[Paul Marin]

PM, Do you think the situation with urban football/soccer development and african americans mirrors the situation of African Americans in re: to tennis? Not sure what the take-up or participation rates of tennis is amonst African Americans since Williams sisters broke, or if it has made any significant difference to the sport and its take-up in urban areas.

I would imagine the situation to be similar. I can't speak for tennis other than to say that it is almost 40 years almost since Arthur Ashe won Wimbledon and 50-odd years since Gibson won on the women's side and other than the Williams sisters, what has tennis done to promote the game amongst minorities? I don't see big tennis programs in inner cities or inner city schools but I admit I haven't followed it.

What I can say about soccer, is that I go to enough tournaments all over the place with my daughter, and it is the NORM, to play against all-white opposition...I have never seen an all-black team in the four years she has been playing travel. The closest is Miramar here in Broward (Fort Lauderdale) and that team dissolved. Even the teams that come from areas where there is a significant local African American population seem to have fewer black players than one would expect.

America is missing out on a very important and key demographic if they don't figure out how to make the sport a working class game. It is currently too expensive for inner city kids to afford, not unlike tennis.

[Gamma]

There was Lori McNeil and Zina Garrison who did pretty well in the middle years and were an awesome doubles pairing.

[Karl]

Still right on the money.
...good talented 'coloured' kids are being keep out of the sport by the powerbrokers of average to poor talented 'white or middle-class' kids.

[Assasin]

Karl it goes deeper than that. An example is most Jamaicans here in America rather to play Alumini soccer tournaments and meet at parks rather than organizing youth teams.

You think Brooklyn, Bronx and Queens would be super power in NY soccer? Why not??? Who is holding them back?

Somebody have to display the vision and start something and do it. I must say big up to former forumite Emporer who has started his own program in East Orange, this year. The results were not the greatest but he is working with parents and they will improve. I must also big up Real Caribe who concentrate on their under 23 program and as a result has won national championships.

Again I must say there are programs by the US Soccer and even Scouting Association of America that encourages soccer team and will help offset the start up cost and coaching cost. You can also have after school program and the kids will get meals etc. if you do it with a school program.

We can let our kids stay watch tv and play video games and 20 years time it will be the same.

[GazX]

I would imagine the situation to be similar. I can't speak for tennis other than to say that it is almost 40 years almost since Arthur Ashe won Wimbledon and 50-odd years since Gibson won on the women's side and other than the Williams sisters, what has tennis done to promote the game amongst minorities? I don't see big tennis programs in inner cities or inner city schools but I admit I haven't followed it.

What I can say about soccer, is that I go to enough tournaments all over the place with my daughter, and it is the NORM, to play against all-white opposition...I have never seen an all-black team in the four years she has been playing travel. The closest is Miramar here in Broward (Fort Lauderdale) and that team dissolved. Even the teams that come from areas where there is a significant local African American population seem to have fewer black players than one would expect.

America is missing out on a very important and key demographic if they don't figure out how to make the sport a working class game. It is currently too expensive for inner city kids to afford, not unlike tennis.

As a youth who also played football on the nearest convienient grass area with other local youths (without coaches or Older adults involvement ), and using coat/ jumpers, or what ever was available to make goal posts, Im taking it you mean expensive in terms of travelling to football/soccer facilities.

[Karl]

I think very talented players are not being allowed in. ...both on those traveling teams and in the professional circles.

The lower income or inner city forwards who are much better than anything in the white or middle-class groupings will be allowed in much easier than the lower income or inner city midfielders and defenders who may equally be much better than their white or middle-class companions.

[GazX]

Still right on the money.
...good talented 'coloured' kids are being keep out of the sport by the powerbrokers of average to poor talented 'white or middle-class' kids.

England 1970s/80s; You know how much talented black youth., especially with dread get ignor by scout/clubs. Nuff!!

[Assasin]

"I think very talented players are not being allowed in. ...both on those traveling teams and in the professional circles."

Not true. Many of the teams in New Rochelle, Long Island etc will even transport some talented kids. The fact is if we fail to organize then we will get nothing.

How do you think Altidore came about from been a very poor Haitian kid to NY Red Bulls. The fact is most our kids are not interested because we are not serious about the game. All we talk about is how good we are/were.

Most of those suburban clubs you talk about started out with a one man with a vision and they realize that money is in it. Youth soccer is not sexy and is not about bragging rights for our former glorious high school days.

We can find time to have all the big tournaments at the man's level, whether it is the All Schools at Gun Hill/ Caribbean Cup etc, but where are we planning for our youths in all of this??

[Karl]

"I think very talented players are not being allowed in. ...both on those traveling teams and in the professional circles."

Not true. Many of the teams in New Rochelle, Long Island etc will even transport some talented kids. The fact is if we fail to organize then we will get nothing.

How do you think Altidore came about from been a very poor Haitian kid to NY Red Bulls. The fact is most our kids are not interested because we are not serious about the game. All we talk about is how good we are/were.

Most of those suburban clubs you talk about started out with a one man with a vision and they realize that money is in it. Youth soccer is not sexy and is not about bragging rights for our former glorious high school days.

We can find time to have all the big tournaments at the man's level, whether it is the All Schools at Gun Hill/ Caribbean Cup etc, but where are we planning for our youths in all of this??

Give me a call!
I have one such awaiting a look in!!!

[Karl]

"I think very talented players are not being allowed in. ...both on those traveling teams and in the professional circles."

Not true. Many of the teams in New Rochelle, Long Island etc will even transport some talented kids. The fact is if we fail to organize then we will get nothing.

How do you think Altidore came about from been a very poor Haitian kid to NY Red Bulls. The fact is most our kids are not interested because we are not serious about the game. All we talk about is how good we are/were.

Most of those suburban clubs you talk about started out with a one man with a vision and they realize that money is in it. Youth soccer is not sexy and is not about bragging rights for our former glorious high school days.

We can find time to have all the big tournaments at the man's level, whether it is the All Schools at Gun Hill/ Caribbean Cup etc, but where are we planning for our youths in all of this??

You are correct on a very, very few getting a look in...but my point is tremendous numbers with great talent being 'locked out' relative to quantity average or mediocre whites or middle-class players being allowed in!

I am convinced that one reason MLS is not progressing in quality at anywhere near the rate it progressed during the previous 5 years is the vast influx of poor players while greater talent is left behind.

[Assasin]

Karl, I remember when the Metro Stars tried in more than one way to reach out to the Caribbean community and even had Caribbean day and used local Jamaican/Trini/Haitian promoters to carry entertainment such as Beenie, top Calypso band(can't remember which one it was, and Tabo(Haitian band) and had a carnival like atmosphere. It was not supported by the Caribbean community. I remember them going to the Bronx and recruiting players for the Metro B team. One of the youth made it unto the A team(Can't remember his name but he was a dreadlocks) but he didn't last. But if we don't support you think they are going to support us?

[Karl]

I also remember...but I do not know what methods the Metro Stars used to get the info out but it was lousy.

When I left New York in 2004 there were too many Caribbean football fans who never knew there was a professional football outfit in the tri-state area. ...forget about knowing of outreach from such entity.

...that outreach reminds of our Reggae Boyz outreach when playing in the tri-state area or here in South Florida. Too often we hear about those outreaches/the matches after they have been played.

[Assasin]

Karl they used the regular Caribbean media. My friend brother in law was one of the promoter used and he was a big promoter in NY at the time. The fact is most of the Caribbean fans at the time was acting like most on the board was.

"MLS a bush League" "American nuh know nothing bout ball" and them "nah waste them time" Only a few people like HL, Scaly and myself even thought about a game. Many people could even get free tickets if they tried.