Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

[Jawge]

both of you. You cannot change the system; a player is defiend as great in the football world when they pay in a WC. Look at Pele (athlete of the century) when they speak of him, what do you see? Pele in his number 10 Brasil jersey scoring goals. When they speak of Diego, you see Diego running around in his Arg jersey scoring goals. When they speak of the Kaiser you see him in Germany's jersey doing his stuff. The same for cryuff, Roamrio, Ronaldo et al. You don't see them defining Diego for what he did at Napoli or Seville. You don't see them defining Pele for what he did at Santos or Cosmos (same for Bekenbauer et al)

In short it is the World Cup that will define a player as being great. Tilla mentioned George Weah. I am sorry but history will be unkind to him. Why? he never played to prove himself in a WC. My son's generation will not know his name. I'm sure if you go to the milan museum or some historical club football magazine you will see his name but that's about it.

Now you mentioned Claudio Renya with Theodore Whitmore's name. Tilla is it personal, why do you want to insult Tappa this way? Comapred to Tappa renya cannot play football. Renya was fortunate to be born in a rich and powerful country, hence connection land him with some clubs in the EPL. Prof Simoes said that if Tappa was a Brasilian, he would be in some top league playing. I am yet to grasp your point about Tappa and Renya (Apple and Orange)

You spoke of putting out the garbage. Guess what?many times people have to go back for stuff they accidentally threw out. I suggest that you run to the conatainer before the truck gets there.

Mo you are excused, for more than obvious reasons but tIlla sigh :ermm:

[Tilla]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Jawge: Your argument suggests that a man who made it to the World Cup is better than the man who did not. So do you say Reyna is better than Tappa because he went to more World Cups?

What about Simoes and Bruce Arena? Is Arena better than Simoes becauseArena took two teams to the World Cup while Simoes only made it to one WC?

Again, so is Eric Wylander better thanGeorge Weah because the former has seen more WCs?

We cannot only look at the Peles, Maradonas, Beckenbauers ect who were stand outs in these tournaments. The World Cup is much more than these handful of players. For every Pele there could be twenty more players in a particular WC who could be forgotten by the average fan.

Anyway Jawge, come back to the argument and not go off on a tangent as you so well like to do when cornered. The argument is, does making it to the World Cup alone define a player as a world class player?

[Mosiah]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

<DIV>Yuh have time.</DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV>Mi dun wid discussing tings dat nuh mek nuh sense. Yuh give it some validity when yuh duh dat.</DIV>

[Jawge]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Tilla let's look at your arguments here:

Where did I say that a player's greatness depends on how many WCs they played? If that's the case Ernie Stewart, Cobie Jones, Caludio Renya et al would be up there with the Peles and Diegos. Tilla let me repeat ; great footballers are defined as great by their performance at the WC (not club football).

<SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__c tl3_lblFullMessage>Jawge: Your argument suggests that a man who made it to the World Cup is better than the man who did not. So do you say Reyna is better than Tappa because he went to more World Cups? This argument is inconsistent seeing that the premise was about going to a WC and not how may times a player went. Tilla I expect better from you (time to cut MO loose)</SPAN><SPAN>



What about Simoes and Bruce Arena? Is Arena better than Simoes becauseArena took two teams to the World Cup while Simoes only made it to one WC? At no time did I mention coaches, I restricted my arguments to players (look it up in the archives)

Again, so is Eric Wylander better thanGeorge Weah because the former has seen more WCs? I can only assume that I am communicating myself poorly.

We cannot only look at the Peles, Maradonas, Beckenbauers ect who were stand outs in these tournaments. The World Cup is much more than these handful of players. For every Pele there could be twenty more players in a particular WC who could be forgotten by the average fan. Then who can we look at we are talking about the great ones. Tilla you must know that; not because you play at the WC that makes you great (Yorkie,Latas, Archibald, Souness at alcan help you out here)

Anyway Jawge, come back to the argument and not go off on a tangent as you so well like to do when cornered. The argument is, does making it to the World Cup alone define a player as a world class player?</SPAN>

Cornered? Tilla what are you talking about? Mo felt that a player can be seen as great without performing at the highest level (it's safe to assume that Mo spends too much time watching corner leagues) I had to say no mo that is not the case. Didn't you feel that Gerrad would be a great performer at the WC? ( I felt so) Many on this board felt that Kaka would light up WC 06 (not to mention Dinho) Guess what Tilla? It didn't happen. Now if Gerrad et al want to be seen as great,come 2010 they better light the WC afire. It's that simple. We can all assume that George Weah would have been great at a WC but he wasn't there, hence in time he will not be marked with the greats (my gut feeling tells me that Weah would do nothing spectacular at the WC. Ask me why) Mo it's okay; you are outmatched here so you took the only recourse that was left.

[Jawge]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Yah okay Mo, thanks

[Tilla]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Jawge: A lot of times when you communicate, it is not what you say but what you do not say. Your arguments suggested that playing in the World Cup was playing at the highest, thereby implying that any player who made it to a WC team was better than those who did not.



<U>Mosiah</U> (From thread "Look out...Rene is coming")

A nuh nutten, Tilla. How me fi feel nuh way when Jawge call me fool!? Rahtid!

Let me tell yuh wah fool - the fact that Jawge believes that any player or coach who went to a World Cup is better than those who didn't. Now, if dat nuh fool...

Jawge
Is the WC the highest level or is there another level of football higher than the WC? Think hard before you answer because this question will show the flaws in your reasoning. BTW why do they use the word "club balla". Mo it betta yuh leff dis, it bigga dan yuh


I love this forum as now one can use your words against you!

[Jawge]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Okay, Tilla If I performed at the highest level and you did not (because of circumstances outside of your control), is itnot safe to say I'm a better player than you (who did not perform at all at the higest level)? Granted I may not be the greatest in this tourney (highest level) but at least Iperformed under a more intense pressure situation than you did. Is not fair to say that you are good at your level but the highest level, you are yet to show yourself? Life is not fair, for some reason I may get to go to this level and you did not but this is where you will be ultimately judged (hence the classification; "club balla").

BTW who do you think is abetter player, Latas or Tappa?

[Tilla]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Jawge (8/26/2006)Okay, Tilla If I performed at the highest level and you did not (because of circumstances outside of your control), is itnot safe to say I'm a better player than you (who did not perform at all at the higest level)? Granted I may not be the greatest in this tourney (highest level) but at least Iperformed under a more intense pressure situation than you did. Is not fair to say that you are good at your level but the highest level, you are yet to show yourself? Life is not fair, for some reason I may get to go to this level and you did not but this is where you will be ultimately judged (hence the classification; "club balla").

BTW who do you think is abetter player, Latas or Tappa?

Jawge: Not because you perform at the highest level in ONE competition means you are better than me. Some players have been fortunate to make it to the World Cup on teams which had varing difficulties of qualifying, or some routes to the World Cup were easier than others.Not to take anything away from T&amp;T or the USA players for that matter, but do you think a Stern John, Kweaynne Jones, Brian McBride or Josh Wolf are better players than a Juan Pablo Angel (Colombia &amp; Aston Villa) or a Diego Forlán (Villarreal &amp; Uruguay) or a Marcelo Zalayeta (Juventus &amp; Uruguay)?

This is what you are implying althoughthe men I have listed are great players but were unfortunate that their teams did not make it to the World Cup. You know that the routes these teams took (Colombia &amp; Uruguay) were much more difficult than that for teams from our confederation.

I hope you got my point.

Tilla

[Jawge]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Tilla at the higest level eeven if the degree of difficulty varies in qualification it evens out (since a teamfrom Confed meets another team from a different confed). BTW for most players it's just one tourney that they distinguish themselves to be marked great (Pele is an exception and that's why he's the greatest) For Diego it was 86 (hes was humbled in82), Cryuff 74 (same for the Kaiser) Romario 94, Ronaldo (2002).

Forlan played in WC02 (check to verify) I don't really know that Colombian but for him to be seen as an elite he has to perform at the highest level. I notice that you didn't answer the Tappa/Latas question. Ah nuh nutten still

[Tilla]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Jawge (8/26/2006)I notice that you didn't answer the Tappa/Latas question. Ah nuh nutten still

Jawge, I did not touch the Tapa/Latas question because as usual you like to go off on a tangent to me. The Tappa/Latas comparison is therefore fit for another discussion. . .

[Jawge]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Nice try Tilla. I know you see the conncetion but you

refuse to connect the dots. It's the same way I'm trying to show the board that in our football all is connected (music, economics, politics, religion and our whole social interaction) High time we begin to look there or we will always be missing a beat.

[Tilla]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

One of these days I am going to ask you to connect the dots for me.

Tilla

[Jawge]

RE: Tilla and Mo, I would like to have a word with

Okay not a problem. Tilla one more thing; we need to learn and also drill

in our athletes to let go of negativity, let go of things outside of their control. Yes T&amp;T was wrong to change the format (look when I spoke of how they got to the WC peeple di bex on ya) but we should have quickly settled down, say a prayer and went about taking care of our business. Even on the site here you could see where many gave up and started saying the "no fair anthem". Mentally we are not strong, trust me. I think the JFF should call on the is professor at UWI:

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: #cc0000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Step out from this space, move into a new place! </SPAN>
<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">published: Wednesday | April 12, 2006</SPAN>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" oreferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><vath o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></vath><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 102pt; HEIGHT: 48.75pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060412/health/Images/WendelAbel.JPG" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Master\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_ image001.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Wendel Abel</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o></o></SPAN>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">AS A child we played a game called stuck in the mud. When you are stuck in the mud, you can't move forward or backward. What is your life experience? Are you stuck in the mud of life? I invite you to step out from this space in which you find yourself and to move into a new place!</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o></o></SPAN>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">CHANGE YOUR LABEL</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o></o></SPAN>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The story is told of a woman with disability who was not making any progress in life. She went to see a counsellor who pointed out to her that she needed to stop wearing long, awkward-looking dresses to hide her disabled leg. The lady decided to change her label. She started to wear shorter dresses. People started to perceive her as being courageous, despite the fact that she had a deformed leg. She started to make more friends and eventually met a man who admired her for courage and grace. <o></o></SPAN>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What is your label? Labels are the way we portray ourselves. How do you portray yourself? Do you portray yourself as a victim or a survivor? Do you see yourself as a sufferer? Do you see yourself as helpless? Are you finding yourself in an abusive relationship and incapable of stepping out? Do you see yourself as a poor thing? Maybe you need to change these labels and step out of that place! <o></o></SPA