RBSC

**Karl** · March 22, 2013, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Don1 View Post

,,,,we all agree that exceptional foot speed can be significant and no coach will bawl for the slowest players available

To follow your argument re the primacy of foot speed in the modern game

Primacy? ...what do you mean it is #1?
...or it is of great importance but not necessarily #1?

I hope you mean the later...as my argument has always been on discussion of TOP OF THE WORLD TEAM and TOP OF WORLD players.

Further I have listed time and again my ideal player having 'jet speed' a la Bolt. ...with start akin to the "Pocket Rocket' like equivalent (man for male TEAMs....woman for female TEAMs).

...to its logical conclusion....the best players would tend to be the fastest, correct?

No! ...they would tend to be among the fastest with best technical and tactical ability. There must be inclusion of "compensating factors" as an assessment is made of each individual.

Example:
What sense would it make to include in TEAM a player who has greatest of speed, but passed the ball in a manner wherein he/she could not make an accurate pass to a TEAMmate or on goal?

No sah! There is no logic in your assumption on "taking to its logical conclusion".

...besides it was said over and over and over and...it is a wish at having players each tremendously fast with top of the world technical ability and great tactical awareness in the same team. Barcelona seems to come the closest to that ideal.

...but come on? Yet each scout, players agent, coacah, manager, technical director must have a picture of what makes a top quality footballer and top quality team...each must have an ideal/a wish for.

Mine?
Stated over and over and over and... but it is a wish on 'the ideal'...and used to judge players and TEAMs and shapes what I seek in players I would love to represent.

Let's look at some data

List of fastest players in the 2010 World Cup

19.98mph - 32.15km/h - Javier Hernandez (Mexico)
19.62mph - 31.57km/h - Avraam Papadopoulos (Greece)
19.57mph - 31.50km/h - Lukas Podolski (Germany)
19.57mph - 31.50km/h - Konstantinos Katsouranis (Greece)
19.32mph - 31.10km/h - Victor Obinna (Nigeria)
19.22mph - 30.93km/h - Gonzalo Higuain (Argentina)
19.11mph - 30.75km/h - Felipe Melo (Brazil)
18.83mph - 30.31km/h - Landon Donovan (USA)
18.80mph - 30.26km/h - Dimitrios Salpingidis (Greece)
18.72mph - 30.13km/h - Asamoah Gyan (Ghana)
18.72mph - 30.13km/h - Eric Choupo Moting (Cameroon)
18.72mph - 30.13km/h - Robbie Findley (USA)
18.72mph - 30.13km/h - Yuto Nagatomo (Japan)

http://www.thebesteleven.com/2010/07...nce-stats.html

A List of the 50 best players in the 2010 World Cup

NO. PLAYER
1 Lionel Messi, Argentina
2 Cristiano Ronaldo, Portugal
3 Wayne Rooney, England
4 Kaka, Brazil
5 Xavi, Spain
6 Didier Drogba, Ivory Coast
7 Andres Iniesta, Spain
8 Fernando Torres, Spain
9 Steven Gerrard, England
10 Michael Essien, Ghana
11 David Villa, Spain
12 Franck Ribery, France
13 Samuel Eto'o, Cameroon
14 Luis Fabiano, Brazil
15 Iker Casillas, Spain
16 Cesc Fabregas, Spain
17 Gianluigi Buffon, Italy
18 Dani Alves, Brazil
19 Nemanja Vidic, Serbia
20 Wesley Sneijder, Netherlands
21 Maicon, Brazil
22 Frank Lampard, England
23 Andrea Pirlo, Italy
24 Carlos Tevez, Argentina
25 Robin van Persie, Netherlands
26 Gonzalo Higuain, Argentina
27 Diego Forlan, Uruguay
28 Thierry Henry, France
29 Sergio Aguero, Argentina
30 Michael Ballack, Germany
31 Julio Cesar, Brazil
32 Arjen Robben, Netherlands
33 Gerard Pique, Spain
34 Miroslav Klose, Germany
35 Lucio, Brazil
36 Javier Mascherano, Argentina
37 John Terry, England
38 David Silva, Spain
39 Carles Puyol, Spain
40 Nicolas Anelka, France
41 Ashley Cole, England
42 Patrice Evra, France
43 Marek Hamsik, Slovakia
44 Karim Benzema, France
45 Yoann Gourcuff, France
46 Daniele De Rossi, Italy
47 Philipp Lahm, Germany
48 Yaya Toure, Ivory Coast
49 Giorgio Chiellini, Italy
50 Landon Donovan, United States

http://espnfc.com/world-cup/story/_/...cc=5901&ver=us

Only one of the "best" 50 players (according to ESPN) is among the fastest...that's Donovan...a home town pick for inclusion on the list

Conclusion: Exceptional foot speed, while useful, is of secondary importance in the modern game

Interesting info.
Stating the obvious: Your conclusion is yours!

The obvious questions are comparable stats for each of the adjudged 50 best? ...and comparable rating on technical ability? ...and tactical awareness?

Criteria used to measure each of demonstrated competence - technical ability (skills) and tactical awareness?

What do you mean by "foot speed being secondary"?
Secondary to what?

**Don1** · March 23, 2013, 02:52 PM

The obvious questions are comparable stats for each of the adjudged 50 best? ...and comparable rating on technical ability? ...and tactical awareness?

Criteria used to measure each of demonstrated competence - technical ability (skills) and tactical awareness?

What do you mean by "foot speed being secondary"?
Secondary to what?
__________________

Secondary to what?? You answered your own question in your piece

Foot speed is secondary to technical ability, tactical awareness etc..

I guess foot speed is overrated

**Karl** · March 23, 2013, 03:03 PM

Still have not revisited the match -

Originally posted by Don1 View Post

Secondary to what?? You answered your own question in your piece

Foot speed is secondary to technical ability, tactical awareness etc..

I guess foot speed is overrated

No - I said you needed all 3! ...a lack of 1 or more and you may create waves...against bottom barrel teams!!! ...as the competition goes up in quality you become more and more of a liability.

Stay with me? - Players must be fast, have high quality technical ability and excellent tactical awareness.

Hue has 2 - the technical ability and tactical awareness...but his fall off on pace is so huge that having the others do not compensate for his 'slow waltz' prowess. At the 2nd form level he appears a monster.

...if we had him on the pitch in the early part of this Panama match I think we would have been 2 or 3 down within the first 45 minutes!

The Panamanians were buzzing around in those early minutes and in the main we were matching them. It appeared all our 'outfielders' were putting in woeman defensive work. Hue would have had us playing 'one-short'! That being 'one-short' would have made a huge difference.

**Muadib** · March 23, 2013, 03:10 PM

"..if we had him on the pitch in the early part of this Panama match I think we would have been 2 or 3 down within the first 45 minutes!"

Yuh ah eediat ?

How does the defensive pace or abilities of an attacking midfield player lead to 2 or 3 goals from the opponent in a first half ???!

**Karl** · March 23, 2013, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Muadib View Post

"..if we had him on the pitch in the early part of this Panama match I think we would have been 2 or 3 down within the first 45 minutes!"

Yuh ah eediat ?

How does the defensive pace or abilities of an attacking midfield player lead to 2 or 3 goals from the opponent in a first half ???!

You do realise that when Panama attacked it was at tremendous speed? ...and you do realise that our defending was at times 'last ditch' tackling? ...and you also saw that all our players were defending well? ...well if you did it should not be hard to imagine that with 1 less player we would be at a decided disadvantage and there would be a high possibility of being overrun?

Hue = no good pace! = 1 less to assist our REGGAEBOYZ on defense!!! The way Panama was buzzing around 2 or 3 down in 45 minutes is how I see it!!!

**Don1** · March 23, 2013, 03:39 PM

I disagree.. I believe your thinking is based on a zero sum philosophy which doesn't reflect reality on the field

While Hue is not a good defender per se he is very good at the possession/passing game. If the RBZ are in possession it is not possible for the opposition to score...in other words offense is ALSO positive defence and it keeps the opponent honest as they tend to play deeper

The lack of actual possession and the lack of our ability to convert possession to goal opportunity is a critical weakness which the current group does not seem able to solve at the Hex level.

Afta wi block di uppacut, right & left cross dem...is bayh jab wi let off

Wi need di knockout punch

**Karl** · March 23, 2013, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by Don1 View Post

I disagree.. I believe your thinking is based on a zero sum philosophy which doesn't reflect reality on the field

While Hue is not a good defender per se he is very good at the possession/passing game ...at slow speeds during slow paced games.

...repeat - at slow speed and in slow paced games.

I know I should not ask you this but - Please list the fast paced games or games at Hex or above where Hue brought that which you speak of into effect?

If the RBZ are in possession it is not possible for the opposition to score...in other words offense is ALSO positive defence.

Oh yes! ...and it is the fear of Hue not assisting on possession - either of retaining or winning possession that puts the fear of God in me!

The lack of actual possession and the lack of our ability to convert possession to goal opportunity is a critical weakness which the current group does not seem able to solve at the Hex level.

You were going well when you passed lack of possession. ...but let me say we did not lack the possession to often invade Panama's final 3rd and we did create goal-scoring opportunities.

Now the latter section of your statement

'the lack of ability to convert possession into goal opportunities (as often as needed) is a critical weakness which this current group does (did) not seem able to solve... (in that Panama match)...

...is bang on!

The coaching staff needs to work on that.
Merely inserting even a fast player with Hue-like technical and tactical abilities would not be a solution. Sure that player would be able to take shots...but all the opportunities would not fall to such a one.

You may have noticed that on occasions in the Panama match when shots were there for the taking by our ReggaeBoyz they did not all fall to the same player. So it shall be in our future matches.

The coaching staff must change the mindset of the players...on the taking of goal-scoring opportunities. Hey passing the ball on goal is not all that hard if the mind is just 'put it on frame'.

Afta wi block di uppacut, right & left cross dem...is bayh jab wi let off

Wi need di knockout punch

Yes siree, bob!!!

**Don1** · March 23, 2013, 04:09 PM

I am not here to trumpet or downgrade any player...just pointing out the team's weakness

Also if you think a situation where a team is playing at home and the opponent has 50% MORE possession is not an indicator of a structural weakness that must be addressed...well ...let's just agree to disagree but that has little to do with poor speed or lack of defense. It's the required skill set that's deficient

Respek

**Mosiah** · March 23, 2013, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Karl View Post

You do realise that when Panama attacked it was at tremendous speed?

Nonsense!

The Panamanians could not have been slower as they built their attacks. Perhaps in the final third, that was where the speed came in. Hue would not have been needed anywhere near that zone to affect anything!

Karl, some of us recorded the match. We can view it 1 million times to see what actually happened.

**Mosiah** · March 23, 2013, 04:16 PM

Another misconception! Hue is the most harassed player in the NPL. He has had to compete against lightning fast defenders and opponents every day of his life! And every time, he passes with flying colours. So how come all of a sudden he can't deal with this speed? Speed over ground is speed over ground!

Why do I bother!

**Assasin** · March 23, 2013, 04:17 PM

It look fast because there was a guy on the right on side with acres of space and Demar running back. Number 1 but that is because he had went through the middle he had support and some ball awareness, not because he was faster than anybody else.

When you give away the ball in transition a hell to run back. It better you kick it over the line. WE gave up too many balls in the offensive third so Panana had just to counter us, it is not just about speed and fitness.

**Muadib** · March 23, 2013, 04:40 PM

Was Tappa a fast speed over the ground or a strong defensive player ?

Just curious...

**Assasin** · March 23, 2013, 04:49 PM

fast defenders all you do is drop your shoulder and move and them get beaten. Speed good but once you get them committed one way, you have them beaten. Them coulda fast like plane.

**Tilla** · March 23, 2013, 04:52 PM

1Don, why are you bothering with Karl? He will stick to his position no matter how valid your arguments are. It is just the way he is.

Tappa seems to have forgotten the teachings of Rene Simoes. Simoes told his set of Reggae Boyz that they have to treat the ball like it is their girlfriend they took to the dance. They should not allow another man to take her from them. He further implored them that if they maintain possession, the other team cannot score. We are losing the possession game even at home and hence will be hard pressed to win against anybody.

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Karl..it's not really FAST vs FOOLISH but..

Karl..it's not really FAST vs FOOLISH but..

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