Referees Union gives Clattenburg full support...

[Tilla]

Dunny, you have the tendency to manipulate argument while straying from the issue at hand. The issue is not whether Chelsea is serious about racism and how they have handled Terry's case. Let us get back to the crux of the matter we are dealing with and not go off on a tangent here. I am not about to be drawn into discussion which centers around a totally different case which has been dealt with my the courts and the FA.

I am taking you back to your initial position that Chelsea should have just taken their beating like men and not file a report. Next you said if the referee were guilty of racial abuse, "then he should be thrown out, simple as that". You still have not accepted that for such a thing to happen, then Chelsea have made the right move to address the matter. Because if Chelsea had not filed a complaint, how would the alleged abuse and possibly action be reached?

My second point I want to run by you and I am sure you are not aware of this. Did you know that the Premier League rules require clubs to file a complaint if there is a complaint of racial abuse against any individual during a game? Let us give Chelsea some credit here. The club's chief executive, Ron Gourlay is an attorney by profession and I am sure he was aware of what they was doing before filing a complaint. Players filed complaints to their club that the match official made inappropriate comments about a certain player, then it is the club's responsibility to file a complaint with the FA. It is not the club's responsibility to get to the bottom of the issue before deciding if racial abuse was done or not.

That is one of the reasons why I find it surprising that people like Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger and Steve Warnock are making public comments about the club and the fact that they have filed a complaint. It goes to show that these gentlemen are ignorant about the very rules which govern the league in which they play.

Anyway, here is an interesting article you may want to read when you get the chance.

Peter Herbert: Chelsea did the right thing reporting the referee

[Dunny]

Dunny, you have the tendency to manipulate argument while straying from the issue at hand. The issue is not whether Chelsea is serious about racism and how they have handled Terry's case. Let us get back to the crux of the matter we are dealing with and not go off on a tangent here. I am not about to be drawn into discussion which centers around a totally different case which has been dealt with my the courts and the FA.

I am taking you back to your initial position that Chelsea should have just taken their beating like men and not file a report. Next you said if the referee were guilty of racial abuse, "then he should be thrown out, simple as that". You still have not accepted that for such a thing to happen, then Chelsea have made the right move to address the matter. Because if Chelsea had not filed a complaint, how would the alleged abuse and possibly action be reached?

My second point I want to run by you and I am sure you are not aware of this. Did you know that the Premier League rules require clubs to file a complaint if there is a complaint of racial abuse against any individual during a game? Let us give Chelsea some credit here. The club's chief executive, Ron Gourlay is an attorney by profession and I am sure he was aware of what they was doing before filing a complaint. Players filed complaints to their club that the match official made inappropriate comments about a certain player, then it is the club's responsibility to file a complaint with the FA. It is not the club's responsibility to get to the bottom of the issue before deciding if racial abuse was done or not.

That is one of the reasons why I find it surprising that people like Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger and Steve Warnock are making public comments about the club and the fact that they have filed a complaint. It goes to show that these gentlemen are ignorant about the very rules which govern the league in which they play.

Anyway, here is an interesting article you may want to read when you get the chance.

Peter Herbert: Chelsea did the right thing reporting the referee

My stance on the matter Tilla is straightforward. I do not think the referee said anything racist to any of the Chelsea players i just think the complaints were made when emotions were running high with Chelsea thinking they were done by the referee during the game. Tilla i am the Manager/Coach of a under 15 team and is aware that a complaint has to be made not just by Premier League teams but whatever club or league you play in under the FA banner. The problem is the way Chelsea handled it. Straight after the game they put out a statement that they have reported the referee for using inappropriate Language to two of their players. There was no need to make that statement before investigating and establishing the facts. Racism in football and society is something i feel passionate about, so i would expect all incidents of racism to be reported and investigated. When it come to Alex Ferguson i would not pay too much to what he have to say, Alex does what he normally do, he is a wind up merchant trying to get an advantage whenever he can. In my opinion Chelsea is a club that is a law onto themselves and i for one don't believe them. I hope my stand is clear.

[Tilla]

Dunny, I will leave it at that. You still would rather cloud the situation with your opinion than to have an objective investigation done. My statement about brainwashed still stands. Your opinion is obviously influenced by media and your club allegiance.

Anyway, now I know where you stand, let us give it a rest.

[Paul Marin]

It is not about trust. Even a broken clock can be right sometimes. You have to get the evidence before you can decide if what they did is right or wrong. Can you show me other FAs in the world that has charged people for racism in their league?

Nonsense! It is ALL about trust. The FA has a 99.5% conviction rate which is about the same rate as any totalitarian system throughout history (if not higher). This makes your point about evidence and the interpretation of evidence a game of propoganda. When Liverpool supported their player the media blasted them...siding with the alleged victim. This time, Chelsea (the alleged victims) are being castigated and accused of fabricating the incident. Why the double standard? Something stinks.

And just because the English FA are making noise about racism means zero to me relative to other FAs because the motions they are making are all in the wrong places. Talk to me when they appoint a minority to their board, or when they start promoting minorities to adjudicate prem games. Which minority has ref'd a prem game since Uriah Renne? How many minorities are in positions of authority in any European (including English) FAs or UEFA? If you want to solve the problem, start with the top...not the bottom. The way the FA is going about it diverts attention to the easy targets and away from themselves. They are corrupt.

[Paul Marin]

Dunny, I will leave it at that. You still would rather cloud the situation with your opinion than to have an objective investigation done. My statement about brainwashed still stands. Your opinion is obviously influenced by media and your club allegiance.

Anyway, now I know where you stand, let us give it a rest.

I agree with you Tilla, except that don't expect an objective investigation by the FA. Barring irrefutable evidence, they will take the side of the party who serves their purposes most (typically, that means the parties who are either one of them or higher up the food chain). And as for being brainwashed, that's how the system continues to oppress...they use tribalism to their advantage.

[Tilla]

I still think if there is any indication that there is racial abuse against anyone, it must be investigated. I would rather have an apparent objective investigation done than no investigation at all. I have very little tolerance for racism and cannot turn a blind eye to it as I see people like Dunny willing to do.

As a Chelsea fan, I did not take a position that Terry should not be investigated for his alleged offense. I also was hoping that if he were found guilty, then he would be dealt with appropriately. Some may say the punishment was not enough and I might even agree. The fact of the matter though, action was taken.

[Peter R]

tilla i dont know if you read my comment regarding the use of technology...all chatter recorded and refs not allowed to cover their mics. tbat right there would eliminate a fair bit of the bs... football administrators have been inexplicably reluctant to introduce and use available technology to mitigate against human error and limitations... everyone e.g. see chicharito offsidd except the ones making the decisions...not fair to them or aggrieved teams. only way to level the field instead of this ..."it even out in the long run" nonsense..

[Peter R]

on mobile.. sorry for typos.

[Paul Marin]

I still think if there is any indication that there is racial abuse against anyone, it must be investigated. I would rather have an apparent objective investigation done than no investigation at all. I have very little tolerance for racism and cannot turn a blind eye to it as I see people like Dunny willing to do.

As a Chelsea fan, I did not take a position that Terry should not be investigated for his alleged offense. I also was hoping that if he were found guilty, then he would be dealt with appropriately. Some may say the punishment was not enough and I might even agree. The fact of the matter though, action was taken.

"It must be investigated" fairly and honestly which I don't trust the FA to do.

Part of the problem with racism specifically is that it is a crime in the UK. That means that investigations of racism only result in charges where the crown prosecution service believes it can make a court rule in its favor "beyond a reasonable doubt". Charges that the FA brings are going to be based on the lower "balance of probabilities" standard, so you could well have a charge brought by the FA and none by the CPS (as was the case with Suarez). So what you have is a potential mixed message as was the situation in the JT case, where the courts find the man innocent and the FA finds him guilty.

Me personally - I think that racism charges by the FA should be based on the higher standard because it is serious, but commensurate with the higher standard should be a life time ban from the sport. Then you'd see it disappear. And of course, every player, official, board room meeting etc. etc. should be recorded and done.