Referees Union gives Clattenburg full support...

[Tilla]

Tilla if the ref did that then he should be sacked and written off it is as simple as that.

And how are you going to determine if racial abuse took place without a proper investigation? You doing a Romney on me now, because from reading your previous post on the matter, I got the impression that it was not important to you that we try and find the truth. Some folks (like Ferguson and Wengner) can accept racism while giving lip service otherwise. Some minorities who are affected by it may turn a blind eye and behave as if it does not exist. Hey, "tek yuh beatin' and get on wid the game" attitude tells me you are willing to succumb to racial injustice against you and yours without putting up a fight. That is not my constitution at all.

[Dunny]

And how are you going to determine if radial abuse happened without a proper investigation? You doing a Romney on me now, because from reading your previous post on the matter, I got the impression that it was not important to you that we try and find the truth. Some folks (like Ferguson and Wengner) can accept racism while giving lip service otherwise. Some minorities who are affected by it may turn a blind eye and behave as if it does not exist. Hey, "tek yuh beatin' and get on wid the game" attitude tells me you are willing to succumb to racial injustice against you and yours without putting up a fight. That is not my constitution at all.

Tilla i know and the majority of the UK knows that the ref has had a raw deal and also Chelsea is a lawless and arrogant football club. In a time when this racism issue is such a sensitive subject they put out a statement that more or less suggest the ref racially abused 2 of their players without substantiating what actually happened. I would've thought the best way to do it was to get to the bottom of what happened before putting out a statement. These types of allegations can ruin lives so it's not nice to throw them around willy nilly. And by the way a player who racially abuse another player is still their captain.

[Tilla]

Dunny: I agree with you on some of what you are saying that maybe they should have taken time to make sure they had a case which could stand the scrutiny before making a statement. I have been following Chelsea from the early 90s and I am not in agreement that if they had an issue with a referee, then they should not have him investigated. Hey Dunny, you live in a society where the preponderance of the people living there are of a particular race and they may not give one hoot about the complaints of a Black man saying he was abused. Again I say, Chelsea must have thought they have a strong case and need to set matters right or they would not have gone out on the limb to report the individual.

That said, I see you still think the players who heard the reference to "monkey" must have been telling a lie. It is really sad that you have chosen to form your opinion on the whole case without having a chance to review the evidence. Talk about being brainwashed by the system. . .

[Tilla]

The comments below were not written by me, but I agree with the writer.
Take a read of it when you get chance.
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I find the venom aimed at Chelsea over the Clattenburg/Mikel incident slightly disturbing. The sheer venom aimed at the potential victims is disturbing, moreso is the readiness of papers to fuel this venom by printing articles questioning it.

It would be hard for a club to have undertaken the complaint more properly than Chelsea have. Their public statements have been the bare minimum they could possibly do, so as to minimise the press frenzy and let the FA investigate. They got an external body to go over their claims and evidence to ensure they were right in pursuing the complaint. No one from the club has said anything about to incident other than to the relevant bodies.

Despite this, there's a shocking amount of hate being directed at Chelsea for having the audacity to report what is potentially a very serious offence committed by someone with a lot of power in the game.

[Peter R]

a simple solution to these hearsay stories; suarez, jt, clattenberg would be to record the o.field chatter for the duration of the game... it would make those who would falsely accuae think ywice, and those who would abuse do likewise. but just likehow the powers that be refuse to even use basic technology to right wrongs... oh well...

[Paul Marin]

a simple solution to these hearsay stories; suarez, jt, clattenberg would be to record the o.field chatter for the duration of the game... it would make those who would falsely accuae think ywice, and those who would abuse do likewise. but just likehow the powers that be refuse to even use basic technology to right wrongs... oh well...

Peter, why do you think they (the powers that be) are so resistant to these obvious and simple solutions? Do you really buy the b.s. that technology will change the game? In that article I posted the other day (about Manu**'s relationship with referees) the author suggested that the English game is just as corrupt as it is elsewhere even though the English walk about thinking their game is "clean" (for lack of a better word). Something is off as the solutions are too simple to not be implemented.

[Paul Marin]

The case you are making is that if Clatenberg is innocent it must be because of the broken system. You framed your reasoning long before that article. Just re-read your post at the begining of the thread. You didn't leave much for objectivity.

Your interpretation of what I read is what is off. I first staid that I have no problem with the union supporting Clattenburg, but when Liverpool and Chelsea did it for their players, they received criticism - i.e., the insinuation was that the players were presumed guilty. I went on to make a prediction that Clattenburg would get off, by extension, because he was [presumed innocent] and closed with the statement that the higher up you go, the more immune you become.

Further in the threads I explained that the interests of the media and the rest of football are not to support Chelsea but rather to tear them down AND that I don't know if Clattenburg is guilty or not, but he is being treated as if he is innocent, which was not a position the media or the rest of football took with JT or Suraez. I am also saying that even if Clattenburg were guilty, he will get off. I saw enough manufactured evidence in the FA tribunal of Suarez to tell you that that these people will come to any conclusion they want to; trust them at your own peril.

[Dunny]

Dunny: I agree with you on some of what you are saying that maybe they should have taken time to make sure they had a case which could stand the scrutiny before making a statement. I have been following Chelsea from the early 90s and I am not in agreement that if they had an issue with a referee, then they should not have him investigated. Hey Dunny, you live in a society where the preponderance of the people living there are of a particular race and they may not give one hoot about the complaints of a Black man saying he was abused. Again I say, Chelsea must have thought they have a strong case and need to set matters right or they would not have gone out on the limb to report the individual.

That said, I see you still think the players who heard the reference to "monkey" must have been telling a lie. It is really sad that you have chosen to form your opinion on the whole case without having a chance to review the evidence. Talk about being brainwashed by the system. . .

No no Tilla this is nothing to do with being brainwashed, my beef is with how Chelsea as a football Club as handled themselves. I could give you a long list. If Chelsea was serious about racism do you think John Terry would still be captain of their football club? In any other job in the country he would've been sacked, the least they could've done was stripped him of the captaincy. Racism is something i take seriously and perpetrators should be dealt with severely. It is ironic that John Obi Mikel who stood next to John Terry and watched him racially abuse Anton Ferdinand and did not do anything about it(probably gagged by the hierarchy at Chelsea) is now thought to be on the recieving end! Irony indeed.

[Assasin]

"the insinuation was that the players were presumed guilty"

Who is saying that? There were many people who were willing to give the benefit of the doubt. It was your club who came out swinging with Suarez that turend off many people, even Mosiah, and them people talking about what mean't black in what language and what is not racial in Uraguay.

Suarez himself kept the discussion in the media. That is part of the reason people went against him.

As with JT, many people could see what he said from the tape. It was just a matter of if you bought his flipping excuse or not.

The FA have not always been on top of racial issues on the pitch and most other FAs haven't been. They have taken action in these two cases and let us see how Clattenberg is treated. No where in your orginal ranting was the man innocence considered. That is paramount as even though we want to punish people when guilty we have to consider what it cost when the innocent is been accused as well(if he is), So far Clatenburg himself haven't even issue an offical statement.

[Paul Marin]

"the insinuation was that the players were presumed guilty"

Who is saying that? There were many people who were willing to give the benefit of the doubt. It was your club who came out swinging with Suarez that turend off many people, even Mosiah, and them people talking about what mean't black in what language and what is not racial in Uraguay.

Suarez himself kept the discussion in the media. That is part of the reason people went against him.

As with JT, many people could see what he said from the tape. It was just a matter of if you bought his flipping excuse or not.

The FA have not always been on top of racial issues on the pitch and most other FAs haven't been. They have taken action in these two cases and let us see how Clattenberg is treated. No where in your orginal ranting was the man innocence considered. That is paramount as even though we want to punish people when guilty we have to consider what it cost when the innocent is been accused as well(if he is), So far Clatenburg himself haven't even issue an offical statement.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Everything you say about JT and Suarez, whether people got turned off or not, whether brought on themselves or not - WERE ALL BEFORE THE MEN WERE TRIED. FULL STOP. So don't come with any of that - as you say - you can't have it both ways.

Second - with regard to Clattenburg being innocent (or not) and me considering it - my point all along is that it is IRRELEVANT what they come back with because even if he is guilty, he will be found innocent (which he may well be). That is not his fault. The point is that you CAN'T TRUST THE SYSTEM. IT IS BROKEN.

it is no different from the kangaroo justice system of the old south. If you are a player (akin to being black in the old south) the system will juk you, if you are part of the establishment (akin to being white in the old south) the system will protect you. Simple.

The difference here is that you trust them, I don't.

[Assasin]

The fact is Paul your bias and because you want to blame the FA, you don't think what if he is innocent and that came accross in your orignal post, you can't run from it. There was no room for it.

Who care about if people turned off. The fact is the action of Liverpool and Suarez was not appropriate and then people like you was rushing to blame Patrick Evra. How soon we forget.

"Second - with regard to Clattenburg being innocent (or not) and me considering it - my point all along is that it is IRRELEVANT "

How is it you want justice but don't care about innocence?
No I don't trust any court, but the fact is you are asking others to wait until it is investigated and to read the judgement but you jump straight ahead.

[Paul Marin]

The fact is Paul your bias and because you want to blame the FA, you don't think what if he is innocent and that came accross in your orignal post, you can't run from it. There was no room for it.

Who care about if people turned off. The fact is the action of Liverpool and Suarez was not appropriate and then people like you was rushing to blame Patrick Evra. How soon we forget.

"Second - with regard to Clattenburg being innocent (or not) and me considering it - my point all along is that it is IRRELEVANT "

How is it you want justice but don't care about innocence?
No I don't trust any court, but the fact is you are asking others to wait until it is investigated and to read the judgement but you jump straight ahead.

Sass, you clearly don't get it. Just answer this question: Do you trust the FA to do a fair investigation of the Clattenburg incident or not?

[Assasin]

I will not call crow before the investigation. Let it progress. It is possible that the FA can give a fair hearing, Yes it is.

[Paul Marin]

I will not call crow before the investigation. Let it progress. It is possible that the FA can give a fair hearing, Yes it is.

Okay - so let the record sho you're saying they can give a fair hearing for the Clattenburg case and I am not. Done. I will go further and "call the crow before the investigation" and guarantee you a finding of "innocent" for Clattenburg, regardless of the evidence. You trust the FA, and I don't. Simple.

[Assasin]

It is not about trust. Even a broken clock can be right sometimes. You have to get the evidence before you can decide if what they did is right or wrong.

Can you show me other FAs in the world that has charged people for racism in their league?