If there's any doubt that Halsey is crap...

[Peter R]

... I have ridden a horse as many times in my life as I have fingers... so I don't qualify as a rider much less cavalry

...not to be nit-picking but if I understand the environment where I operate (England) and I know the person was not intending to be offensive and I (really) didn't find it offensive but he used language that could be considered such and him play fi Liverpool... jook him ************ yes and file a complaint... life in the big leagues. Suarez will learn... (I hope).

[Paul Marin]

Me did want Ghana win to' but me woulda do the said thing as Suarez? my bad that is VERY consistent!!!

No it's not. So let's say it this way. "I wanted Liverpool to win, but I would have done the same thing that Slurgie did when he called for Shelvey to be red carded were I in his situation" - make sense now?

I see you condoning at the very least, the use of racist language moreso when offence is taken to it. we would not have been having this conversation if ferdinand and evra did not take offence.

Gamma - this is absolute horsesh*t. Show me - and don't dodge this - where I have defended John Terry's use of racist language? You can't - search high and low - it ain't gonna happen. With regard to Evra/Suarez, show me where I condoned the use of racist language there too. You can't on that front either. The fact is - if you all would take the cake outta unu ea's - is that I am saying that the "court" sentenced Suarez for offenses where there was ZERO substantive proof - ZERO. If you don't see a problem with that, then, I can't help you. Secondly, Suarez in the only substantiated use of the word used it inoffensively.

As Mandela said, racism, whether by a black man or white man, is a disgusting thing. I have never condoned it - never have - never will. Trying to paint me in that light is deeply offensive - deeply. I could say that people on here are being racist as they only seem to care when black people are offended - where was the outrage when Frimpong used the word "Yid"?

context is important. you make it sound like evra and suarez were discussing the best place to get lox and cream cheese and evra just tek of on a tangent! they were exchanging heated words!!!

This is where you need to read the report. At the time that Suarez said he asked Evra "Porque neh-gro" Suarez was not arguing with him. Evra at that point asked him, "why did you kick me?" Suarez response (based on the expert testimony in the case) was equivalent to "How you mean, chiney youth" which I have heard on football fields with no racial intent since me could kick a ball. All other references to him using alleged racist language have been based only on Evra's word - NOTHING ELSE. No video - no witnesses - NOTHING!! He said he was called it 10 times, and not one of his team mates can support him on that. Give me a break!

if you call a man "chiney" and he is offended ESPECIALLY in a context when they were NOT having tea and crumpets together in civilised way i.e. it was intended to be disparaging .... that is indefensible in my book.

If context is important, what if you called him "brother" and he thought you called him [a disparaging word for chinese] should you still be excoriated? For example, growing up in Jamaica, we used the word "******" all the time with no offense intended. I went to Trinidad and found out that word is highly offensive. So if I called a Trinidadian Indian "******" before knowing the context Trinis see it in, would that make me racist? I can see how you could say I was racist if I knew it was offensive and used, it, but not otherwise. That's the brush you're painting Suarez with - it is not fair.

if the person is not offended then it is a non-issue!

That is horsesh*t again. Whether the man is offended or not is irrelevant to the language being racist. You first have to substantiate that the language is racist which requires both objective and subjective assessment. Suarez was charged for calling Evra "negro" 8 times. Only one incident can be substantiated. Secondly, with regard to context - the use of the term IN SPANISH (which they happened to be speaking) was non-offensive...tea and crumpets notwithstanding. Were Suarez speaking English, then there would be ZERO argument - but he was not. This simple concept seems to evade most people...I don't know why, but it does. The language being spoken is a MAJOR difference between the JT case and the Suarez case. MAJOR.

ghana? what about ghana? suarez used racist language in that game too? i wasn't aware ... 1st half or 2nd half?

If he is what you want to make him out to be...I'm sure he used it in both halves...and if someone had charged that he did, he would surely have been convicted by the FA...no matter if there was no evidence.

My bottom line - racism is a serious accusation - don't condemn people without facts and certainly, don't submit them to an adjudication process that is unfair. As Mandela said, it is a disgusting thing. Don't take it lightly.

[Gamma]

Pure bullcrap!!!!


Regarding the majority of what you said we have been over and over. Why did you you kick me, because you are black! Oh such terms of enadearment!

I already dressed the use of an epithet in ignorance! Suarez is in England that is the standard by which he is to be judged. Suppose it was normal in his country to eat babies, cut him some slack for doing it in England? As I said from the beginning (and this where Liverpool, and judging by the fact that we are still having this conversation, YOU failed him) APOLOGISE!!!!

Of you had used the word ****** to someone in Trinidad and they became upset, would you double down and tell them that you said nothing wrong, or would you apologize to them for using it because you did not know it was offensive?

[Mosiah]

That video is complete crap! And if you really understood football and the rules you would not draw for the worthless propaganda piece of ********!

Even so, you are comparing a very debatable offside that wasn't called with Suarez' obvious tiefing action??!!?!?

There was no offside on that play! I say that categorically and without fear of honest and decent contradiction!

[Paul Marin]

Pure bullcrap!!!!


Regarding the majority of what you said we have been over and over. Why did you you kick me, because you are black! Oh such terms of enadearment!

I already dressed the use of an epithet in ignorance! Suarez is in England that is the standard by which he is to be judged. Suppose it was normal in his country to eat babies, cut him some slack for doing it in England? As I said from the beginning (and this where Liverpool, and judging by the fact that we are still having this conversation, YOU failed him) APOLOGISE!!!!

Of you had used the word ****** to someone in Trinidad and they became upset, would you double down and tell them that you said nothing wrong, or would you apologize to them for using it because you did not know it was offensive?

Donkey - Suarez already apologised for offending anyone; but you all choose to ignore it. Has Evra apologised about telling Suarez (which started the confrontation) about his sister's privates? I guess that doesn't matter does it when you pick one side over the other. Secondly, your translation of the altercation is one of convenience that supports your argument, there are others that are more likely which are not racial. That is FACT. You choose the one you want to without giving Suarez who you already hate the benefit of the doubt. To show you the bias in play - the FA translates "concha de tu hermana" FIGURATIVELY meaning "effing hell" but translates "porque negro" LITERALLY. Either you do both figuratively or both literally, not have a mix and match.

Thirdly, if they were on the moon, would the culture of the moon matter when they are having a dialogue in SPANISH!? What is the true intent is all that matters. Evra misunderstood the man, went on a tirade about it, found himself in a hole with the FA's full ignorant backing and had no choice but to press on. Anyone reading the document will realise that this was much ado about nothing in that Evra misunderstood what he though Suarez had said, but he had made such a big stink about it, he couldn't back off. Lucky for him, he got the backing of a court with a 99.5% conviction rate, had it gone to criminal court, Suarez would not have been charged. Racism isn't something you accuse someone of lightly. And if I did call someone ****** and they were offended, I wouldn't apologise to them if they told me about my sister's parts until they showed some acknowledgement of that themselves...and not apologising does not make me a racist.

And I take it you agree that:

1. there was no inconsistency in my statement regarding the handball against ghana.

2. you understand that I am not defending racism, I am defending fairness - what happened to Suarez used to happen to black people by white people all the time in southern courts. We have to be fair if we expect fairness.

3. You still have not *shown* me where I have condoned the use of racist language by JT. don't make those accusations based on hyperbole...if you are wrong - i.e. you have offended me - you should apologise. And I am serious.

[Paul Marin]

That video is complete crap! And if you really understood football and the rules you would not draw for the worthless propaganda piece of ********!

Even so, you are comparing a very debatable offside that wasn't called with Suarez' obvious tiefing action??!!?!?

There was no offside on that play! I say that categorically and without fear of honest and decent contradiction!

Mo, your response shows that you are unable to be dispassionate about Luis Suarez. Where - and don't dodge me like you did before - have I compared "a very debatable offside with Suarez' obvious tiefing action??!!?!?"

I simply made a statement that you all have to get over ghana and asked for opinions on the video. My words were:

"You all have to get over Ghana - look at this video - any thoughts?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuWD-... results_main

It was a question. I did not draw any conclusions or make any insinuations as to whether I thought it was offside or not, nor did I use it to absolve Suarez of his actions. Your response leads me to believe that you need to put logic before emotion as it appears you are consistently drawing the wrong conclusions about me (very sad) and making ridiculous accusations based on a loose amalgam of perceptions around the Suarez affair.

If there is no offside, then great. I have no problem with that. Please explain why it wasn't offside for the rest of us who may be having difficulty drawing our own conclusions. Far be it from me to to put my two cents in front of your $100 as I "really [don't understand] football and the rules". By the way, I think football is a game of laws, not rules...but I defer to your greater wisdom on the matter.

[Gamma]

donkey??!!

anyway somethings have to be interpreted figuratively because there is no literal translation.

for offending "anyone"? that is an apology? my apologies if i have offendied anyone.

suarez is no saint stop acting like that, even worse as if he is a victim.

[Paul Marin]

donkey??!!

anyway somethings have to be interpreted figuratively because there is no literal translation.

for offending "anyone"? that is an apology? my apologies if i have offendied anyone.

suarez is no saint stop acting like that, even worse as if he is a victim.

Sorry - I didn't mean to call you donkey, but it was better than what I really had in mind (I ain't no saint). Apology accepted and given. I have never claimed that Suarez is a saint, but I do think he is a victim...as is the case for Evra who was a mere pawn of the FA in their ruse to advance their own agenda. More importantly, sainthood is reserved for far greater men than any footballer ever has been or ever will be. Victims are all around us. Until fairness is the principle behind all actions, victimization will continue.

[Mosiah]

Then what's the point of that video?!?!?!

Drawing the wrong conclusions about you?!!? Yuh mean when I say yuh tek it upon yuhself to defend those accused of racism in football?!? I thought I had asked a question!

What other wrong conclusion have I drawn?!!?!

I would explain why there was no offside in that video, but not sure you will understand! Another wrong conclusion, huh?

[Paul Marin]

Then what's the point of that video?!?!?

I had never seen it before and wanted an HONEST assessment. You gave a big bright statement that it wasn't offside but now you want to bring juvenile excuses why you are not going to explain yourself. Ridiculous. :kissteeth:

Drawing the wrong conclusions about you?!!? Yuh mean when I say yuh tek it upon yuhself to defend those accused of racism in football?!? I thought I had asked a question! What other wrong conclusion have I drawn?!!?!

It goes to show how intellectually challenged you are. Your exact words were: "Paul Marin, it appears to me you feel it is your duty to relentlessly defend those accused of racism." Where is the question in that? My response was to ask:

"Mo, where am I defending racism with JT?" It being understood that your statement was in response to a question I asked the barristah about an FA rule, with no reference to JT, Suarez or anyone else. My question to you remains still unanswered.

I would explain why there was no offside in that video, but not sure you will understand! Another wrong conclusion, huh?

Proof positive that you are incapable of making sound arguments. Put your money where your mouth is and stop insulting good people name.

On a very serious note: don't EVER insinuate that I am defending racism ever again. Trying to dodge your insinuations with your cutesy musings ain't fooling anyone, except maybe yourself. Racism is a disgusting thing and for you to paint me with that brush is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE and INSULTING. I will always argue for fairness. I truly don't care what colour a man is and have witnessed racism by white people, black people, chinese people, hispanic people, indian people and japanese people. In every case, it is offensive.

My position is that we will NEVER abolish racism if we are not fair. The FA was not fair to Luis Suarez in my opinion, I don't know about JT until I read their report. You might have a different opinion about Suarez than I do, but that doesn't mean that because mine isn't congruent with yours I am defending racism. Ratchet up your thinking.

[Mosiah]

Defending those accused of racism and defending racism are two different things in my book. I think you will agree.

"Paul Marin, it appears to me you feel it is your duty to relentlessly defend those accused of racism." - not a question, but the use of the word "appears", should suggest to you that I am not certain.

Wasn't trying to paint you with any racism brush. I apologise sincerely if it came across like that.

[Paul Marin]

Defending those accused of racism and defending racism are two different things in my book. I think you will agree.

"Paul Marin, it appears to me you feel it is your duty to relentlessly defend those accused of racism." - not a question, but the use of the word "appears", should suggest to you that I am not certain.

Wasn't trying to paint you with any racism brush. I apologise sincerely if it came across like that.

You are correct. They are different. Sorry for the misunderstanding and I sincerely appreciate your apology. Thanks.