Darren Mattocks is a touch above..

[Muadib]

who yuh woulda play instead ah dem.. mek wi si wheh really a gwaan yah suh..

Mi tink mi have an idea but mek mi hear yuh replacements come fram..

[OJ]

There is a fundamental mistake that Stonigut is making....Stats do not tell everything. There are other aspects.. how tactical is the player, does he track back... do i want my attacking options to cut in and can he do that... I think the team tappa played was right , subs was right no chages

[Don1]

Yes it ll depend on whose stats you look at and whether you go straight GDP or Ppp is probably a better real look at conditions on the ground. The source I looked at has Vietnam at 1.4k GDP and Jamaica at above 5.0. Regardless Ja is way ahead, it is possible that with their population size they may have a sizable enough middle class to sustain the league better than Jamaica but the bottom line is that countries with GDP or ppp under 10k don't really have a history of sustaining a real professional league! Thus somebody is probably losing some money on this venture or the players are averaging less than $15k us per year which harly qualifies as a professional league.


Don1 I am from the school of the real world where if it don't make money, it don't get funded.

It depends on whose stats??? I'm aware of the PPP adjustment for GDP

The post stated that Jamaica's 2011 GDP (apparently without pricing adjustments) was $9100... this is totally incorrect and could be a typo... the number is around US$5K giving JA a total un-adjusted GDP ~ US$15B

It further stated the GDP number adjusted for PPP was ~US$25B... this is solid

As far as your determination that the V-League is destined to fail is concerned...this may or may not be so...I don't have info either way. I do know that Vietnam's economy is emerging and relatively dynamic in attracting capital and is producing significant growth in the last 2 decades or so. I know also that the people are very hard workers.

I don't understand how you can make such a definitive statement about their league's failure merely by looking at GDP and making generalized assumptions from that.

I don't understand that type of analysis as your conclusion seems to be a non sequitur

[Stonigut]

Ok let me xplain this for you straight up nominal GDP per capita in usd, Vietnam is about $1.35k per person, Ja is $5.5k pp, with Ppp which considers cost of living on the ground in the country. Vietnam is roughly $3.3k and Ja is est $9.0k, bottom line rough averaging the two for balance Ja is 3.5 times Vietnam.

Alright my stance on the vliga is just based on my sense of fundamental numbers, my opinion, u do the math, here is the rough stuff.
1. Vliga expected to get big money from tv rights, in reality they got a contract for $288k usd per year which it seems they are having issues with.
2. Vliga hass 14 teams with wicked competition to get excellent foreign players, thus driving costs through the roof, some Top players getting on average over 200k USD, now each team must maintain five fully stocked teams From u15 to the top side some 450 player minimum estimated.
3. The VPN is shooting for $1mill profit in 2013 however the main place they were hoping to really get money was the tv rights which they got only 288k per year, summing don't compute there.
4. The president of the league said, and I quote" I am not an economist, I am not sure how many teams currently make a profit of $500k usd which is what is required to be a part of the league, but the main tv contract don't pay half of that for the whole league.???

Now back to country fundamentals most leagues and teams are not turning a profit in countries that have a per capita Of 20 times Vietnam with matching populations so how does Vliga survive if tv rights not paying out the big ones and your country population has little disposable income to pay for a ticket to a football match! Do the math and see what kind of demand per venue is necessary at what kind of price if the stands are on average 50% full which would be great across the board then look at the expense of operation, and each club is required to have a stadium of at least 10k which in itself is probably insufficient to drive a revenue stream for. 14 teams to cover the cost of operation plus the cost of importing players at the prices they are bringing them in for. I could build a model for this and I am sure you could too, it would say, un-sust-tain-able, yep. It probably could work as you say if per capita income double every 2-3 years but as you know that is some wicked growth.

Finally a little Latin for you since I cannot sleep,

Don Unus, Quo Vadis? Quae ad tu hoc? Tu caedo ego! Et tu Don Unus, are longa, vita brevity usurpo satis usus! Itaque de facto liga V est non vita. Arid terminus, "parturient montes nascetur ridiculus mus"
Difficilis terra narro, veni, vidi, vici!

[Stonigut]

Vlig discussion with the one Don Unus!

Ok let me xplain this for you straight up nominal GDP per capita in usd, Vietnam is about $1.35k per person, Ja is $5.5k pp, with Ppp which considers cost of living on the ground in the country. Vietnam is roughly $3.3k and Ja is est $9.0k, bottom line rough averaging the two for balance Ja is 3.5 times Vietnam.

Alright my stance on the vliga is just based on my sense of fundamental numbers, my opinion, u do the math, here is the rough stuff.
1. Vliga expected to get big money from tv rights, in reality they got a contract for $288k usd per year which it seems they are having issues with.
2. Vliga hass 14 teams with wicked competition to get excellent foreign players, thus driving costs through the roof, some Top players getting on average over 200k USD, now each team must maintain five fully stocked teams From u15 to the top side some 450 player minimum estimated.
3. The VPN is shooting for $1mill profit in 2013 however the main place they were hoping to really get money was the tv rights which they got only 288k per year, summing don't compute there.
4. The president of the league said, and I quote" I am not an economist, I am not sure how many teams currently make a profit of $500k usd which is what is required to be a part of the league, but the main tv contract don't pay half of that for the whole league.???

Now back to country fundamentals most leagues and teams are not turning a profit in countries that have a per capita Of 20 times Vietnam with matching populations so how does Vliga survive if tv rights not paying out the big ones and your country population has little disposable income to pay for a ticket to a football match! Do the math and see what kind of demand per venue is necessary at what kind of price if the stands are on average 50% full which would be great across the board then look at the expense of operation, and each club is required to have a stadium of at least 10k which in itself is probably insufficient to drive a revenue stream for. 14 teams to cover the cost of operation plus the cost of importing players at the prices they are bringing them in for. I could build a model for this and I am sure you could too, it would say, un-sust-tain-able, yep. It probably could work as you say if per capita income double every 2-3 years but as you know that is some wicked growth.

Finally a little Latin for you since I cannot sleep,

Don Unus, Quo Vadis? Quae ad tu hoc? Tu caedo ego! Et tu Don Unus, are longa, vita brevity usurpo satis usus! Itaque de facto liga V est non vita. Arid terminus, "parturient montes nascetur ridiculus mus"
Difficilis terra narro, veni, vidi, vici!

[Don1]

I fear you have entrapped yourself in an unyielding web of idolatry to remote statistics.... to the point of divorcing yourself from reality.

As I said it is a non sequitur for you to be 10,000 miles away from a country, admittedly having zero knowledge of it's practices (Google notwithstanding) ....and based on ignorance other than a perusal of GDP numbers and some fanciful metrics born of your own clearly fertile imagination....predict the failure of a league

That conclusion of yours is a house built on sand ... bettah yuh get a more solid foundation

[Stonigut]

Come on Don, work with me on this, do the back ways engineering on the fundamentals and you can come up with the same answer. I will ask you this, would you put your retirement money on the best Vleague team, that is the standard or as an investor would you invest in this league. I think what we have here is a few individuals that are spending a lot of their own money to make this happen. Truth is if we did a analysis of Professional leagues We would find that the vleague is probably in the poorest country by far of any league that has lasted more than 20 years, that is just the facts, much as you hate it you know it is true, has nothing to do with being 10k miles away. Hell in many cases companies shut down plants by just looking at the stats, same here, ll those stats are good hard numbers, you think I am just making them up. Come on, me and you ah talk straight, we just trying to get to the nitty gritty. The sooner we get there the less time we waste and less money gets wasted.

[Don1]

Come on Don, work with me on this, do the back ways engineering on the fundamentals and you can come up with the same answer. I will ask you this, would you put your retirement money on the best Vleague team, that is the standard or as an investor would you invest in this league. I think what we have here is a few individuals that are spending a lot of their own money to make this happen. Truth is if we did a analysis of Professional leagues We would find that the vleague is probably in the poorest country by far of any league that has lasted more than 20 years, that is just the facts, much as you hate it you know it is true, has nothing to do with being 10k miles away. Hell in many cases companies shut down plants by just looking at the stats, same here, ll those stats are good hard numbers, you think I am just making them up. Come on, me and you ah talk straight, we just trying to get to the nitty gritty. The sooner we get there the less time we waste and less money gets wasted.

Sarry...Don1 nuh inna nuh backways nutten... Fiya Bun dat!!

Frontal attak fi iva wi seh!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Don1]

Critical thought does not allow Don1 to speculate on the fortunes of that league...the relevant data is not available to me .... plus it's not interesting enuff for me to investigate

All I would commend to you is to resist the temptation to have firm convictions about something you are unfamiliar with in the absence of hard, pertinent information

But is one Rum Bar dis...suh doan tap atall

[Don1]

You hit the nail on its head as it relates to moving players...in particular from 'little known leagues' - The technical managers (or their surrogates - scouts or players agent or other in whom they have faith on ability to spot quality i.e. 'know ball'/spot top talent/make determination on quality players) seek stats and then videos (a likle luk!)...then if a passing grade is assessed the final exam = trials is arranged.

yuhzimi

[Muadib]

wait.. is 'surrogate' dem ah call Mosiah now..

rath...

[Gamma]

there is a theory that many if not most pro clubs in europe are carrying serious debt but they are just too big too fail.

the escalating wages and transfer fees have meant that most clubs are living above their means and on a proper application of an insolvency test, are most likely insolvent.