Darren Mattocks is a touch above..

[Tilla]

StoniG: You are making some assertions which you cannot back up with facts.

v league base quality of players is lower than Rspl base players

What is the basis of such a statement? I mean we have produced some good players who have gone on to play in other leagues outside of Jamaica. But making a generalization about players in one league vs another, I am not sure how you are doing it. Have you watched much V-League games and RSPL games to be able to make that comparison? Oh, I guess your article posted on this site. . .

v league ave more money now, but it is unsustainable, the league itself relies on a main sponsor and while 10 k attendance average is great, the per capita income of the country does not really speak well to the sustainability of a pro league in the long run.

The model is not much different from other clubs around the world where sponsorship money run things. If you look to MLS teams or even the EPL, you will see sponsorship money at work. The thing I am aware of is that they are making certain rules that no one owner can own more than one club in the league. I think you had the situation where a Bank could be majority owner of two clubs in the league (Mosiah, correct me here if I am wrong), but now that is to change. The sustainability of the league is anyone's guess. The league has been running since 1980, so it predated the MLS. Obviously their model suits them and is not just based on per capita income for sustainability.

Right now that league is under threat of splitting into two which will probably tear it apart.

I am not aware of this, apart from the ownership agreement I mentioned in the earlier statement. Mosiah, are you aware of this splitting apart deal StoniG is talking about?

[Assasin]

mi know say unnu cuss me out when mi tell unnu stats is for training. You look on the stats and use it in training, Games can be quite different than the stats. You use stats to get players to repeat whatever you want players to learn. You can have the best stats in most department and still lose. Chelsea show you that in the Championship league.

[Mosiah]

But you are saying Bryan could not cement his place in the team (not even going to bother argue which tier)! That is plain nonsense! He was the star on the team!!! How does the star not cement his place?!?!?

And the track analogy...come on, Stoni!

[Karl]

I think I knew what you meant...but was/am not sure. This second post is easily understood...as I understand you to be saying the Americans did well to prevent many of our attempts at service...

...underlined by your suggestion

we should have done better

...that we underperformed in this area.

[Stonigut]

Don 1 me and you go through this argument comprehensively already, what we came up with is that stats is great in isolating and identifying the best, however team selection and playing time comes down at the end of the day to a multiplicity of intangibles, such as passion, desire, communication skills and chemistry, but first task is identifying the best and then using the strainer from there for what the coach/management team specifically looking for.

[Stonigut]

You looking at the sport as the analogy, you need to look at the fundamentals which is performance. In the track case I was thinking 4*1 relay but t don't really matter, if you think from a championship standpoint, you need the best performer to represent the team, so from my standpoint as the manager of the track team, I choose ashmeade first as his reform acne is superior to lee, same with Cummings and Bryan, Cummings performance is superior to Bryan to date, so I choose Cummings first and mek bryan run off the bench, if Cummings don't perform and Bryan sparkles off bench I Then am inclined to put in Bryan, hw we are doing now is opposite that model. Thus the way we use and throw away numerous players over a stretch of a few years.

[Stonigut]

Mosiah, I am not stating that As a fact, I don't know any thing about what he has done in Vietnam, I know he went over relatively recently, but I have No data so based on how recent he has gone I am saying he has probably not cemented his way on the side. Just speculation on my part on that point based on lack of info and how recent the move is.

[Stonigut]

Always go with recent performance, fuller stats last year have him at the bottom of the striker list.

[Don1]

You looking at the sport as the analogy, you need to look at the fundamentals which is performance. In the track case I was thinking 4*1 relay but t don't really matter, if you think from a championship standpoint, you need the best performer to represent the team, so from my standpoint as the manager of the track team, I choose ashmeade first as his reform acne is superior to lee, same with Cummings and Bryan, Cummings performance is superior to Bryan to date, so I choose Cummings first and mek bryan run off the bench, if Cummings don't perform and Bryan sparkles off bench I Then am inclined to put in Bryan, hw we are doing now is opposite that model. Thus the way we use and throw away numerous players over a stretch of a few years.

I think your statistical modeling is interesting...but your literal/linear or single-minded application of it is misguided

It would be interesting to know which successful coach or coaching system uses statistics in this bald, non-nuanced way to select players. Taken to it's logical conclusion....if you're a coach you really don't need to see a player to evaluate them well...you just need to see his stats an' yuh good

The essential problem with your proposals in my view is your lack of consideration of crucial non-measurable indices....so you throw the baby out with the bathwater with your data-centric approach

[Stonigut]

Ok but me knw you as a man that love the discussion thing. Let me post my 22 from the stats using the guys that have actually played for Jamaica.

[Stonigut]

Actually tough to truly say but based on my statistical model I have v league slightly ahead of Rspl as vleague has had a representative in the semifinals of the regional club competition plus the league is professional, not sure how long it will last, vietnam per capita income is a 1/4 of jamaica's. Sponsorship seems to be a primary driver not sure how that lasts.

[Don1]

ok boss


But to give your selection outcomes proper context I think you have to drill down deeper than mere names...to the playing system and player roles

Good or "better than others" certain players may be...but it all comes down to the team. Statistical high performers can be out of place or sub-optimal in a given system or individual role..no?

[Stonigut]

Good point, remember this is just a first cut at a ranking, I can see where it can be improved but at the same time more detail can be getting too close to the trees, as you say it is not everything but it puts a lot in context and a better quick view of the big picture that what we currently do which is more of a feel and connection ting.

[Muadib]

Mi si one bag a yapping ah gwaan innah dis thread..bout ease in slowly and sub tactics.. mi nuh need nuh Stats or league comparison... eiddah yuh know ballah or yuh nuh know ballah..

Mattocks is a ballah and Tappa need fi leggo di ballah...

CONFIDENCE is key.. dah yute reminds me of the Golden Era where all Brazilian fraid a Tappa.. and Andy Williams seh nuh man cyaan tek wheh him ball and buss Forlan salad fi fun..

Leggo Mattocks pon Concacaf !

[Assasin]

I can't agree with you there. Coaches have to make decision based on what they want and who can deliver at that time against a specific opponent and if Kevin Bryant is the man, it nuh matter if a DCup him a play, play him.

Sometimes it wise to inject something nobody knows about.