King Kenny and Suarez better get

[Gamma]

does that fact that evra took umbrage and reported him mean anything?

and when he found that evra took umbrage and how serious it was should he not then have apologised?!!

to be honest (and i have been consistent here), it was his attitude AFTER that i found irresponsible and it caused me to wonder, now that he knows that it is perceived this way in this country and this culture should he not re-assess his stance?

anyway he caused all of this upon himself and LFC who now have egg on their face. KD stood by him and he lied to dalglish!!

[Paul Marin]

does that fact that evra took umbrage and reported him mean anything?

Not technically according to my interpretation of the FA's rule book.

and when he found that evra took umbrage and how serious it was should he not then have apologised?!!

I think this is easy to say in hindsight. It is difficult to understand what Suarez knew/didn't know and at what time. Remember on the field, after the ref spoke to them, he attempted to be conciliatory when Evra batted away his hand. That to me probably set the tone from there on regarding his opinion of Evra's receptiveness to any such apology...and of course...if he didn't think he did anything wrong...why apologize? That is why I say this is the makings of fascism when a man is guilty before being PROVEN innocent.

[Assasin]

What them say about ignorace of the law?

Sometimes you have to ask "did I offend you"?

[Gamma]

It is difficult to understand what Suarez knew/didn't know and at what time
this is where LFC let him down and let down themselves.

he attempted to be conciliatory when Evra batted away his hand

you mean patting him on the head like a puppy? you think a man just call yuh ********** and then a pat yuh pon yuh head puppy yuh a guh nod an' smile?

suarz is not an innocent! we now know he is a cheat and a liar!

[Paul Marin]

What them say about ignorace of the law?

Sometimes you have to ask "did I offend you"?

First of all, this is not a case of Suarez breaking the law, otherwise, it would be a criminal case held in the criminal courts and outside the auspices of the FA and its tribunal.

Secondly, Suarez was charged by the FA for breaking a RULE from their rule book. Ignorance of the rule is no defense. However, you have to realize that this is a private club bringing the full power of its monopolistic authority down on a member; their tribunal process and standard is VERY DIFFERENT from the proceedings that would be expected in a court of law where guilt would have to be proved "beyond reasonable doubt" in a race case.

[OJ]

context my friend context....it depends ... i know you way to smart for that and know that not everything is a yes and no.. how comes such esteem heads like you and peter pick this up.... leave this to x... you know seh unno done loose off unno big striker..

[Paul Marin]

context my friend context....it depends ... i know you way to smart for that and know that not everything is a yes and no.. how comes such esteem heads like you and peter pick this up.... leave this to x... you know seh unno done loose off unno big striker..

See my exchange with Gamma on this subject. We are in agreement that context matters, but that is NOT the basis of the FA's ruling. They state that it is essentially not relevant. So if you said "it depends" you would have stated what Suarez's lawyer argued and was rejected.

See this link: http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/s...131#post342131

[Paul Marin]

It is difficult to understand what Suarez knew/didn't know and at what time
this is where LFC let him down and let down themselves.

he attempted to be conciliatory when Evra batted away his hand

you mean patting him on the head like a puppy? you think a man just call yuh ********** and then a pat yuh pon yuh head puppy yuh a guh nod an' smile?

suarz is not an innocent! we now know he is a cheat and a liar!

Gamma - you were going well for a moment there, but you descended into the depths of Lazie-ism with this last post. I will stick to the debatable aspects of the argument and steer clear of the emotional components ("cheat" - we've been down that road before - so let's not go there) As for "liar", I don't know what the basis of that statement is, maybe you can help me with that claim.

The above aside, I completely agree that Liverpool let Suarez down. I said it before, Suarez was a victim of his own naivite, poor Liverpool administration of the matter and p-i-ss poor lawyers.

As for the "patting on the head", it is done all day long in football...you and I both know that he was not being aggressive or deprecating in the gesture. Whether he is 'innocent' or not is something that we won't ever REALLY know as he was never given a fair trial and all we have to go on is "evra's word". Go to the bank on that one. LOL!!!

[Gamma]

he told lfc and dalglish that he would shake hands. i posted an article here where dalglish publicly stated suarez said he would shake hands.

suarez publicly embarassed kd and lfc in more ways than one

[Assasin]

yeah but what is not in doubt is he said something that offended Evra, even if Evra was guilty of taunting him. It maybe a court in the interest of the FA but it is needed.

When you see so many minorities don't go to games in England because of tugs especially the lower divisions have serious problems it is hard to even think that he shouldn't apologise and move on for me. Even if I accept the fact that he is coming from somewhere else.

While it may not seem offensive to Suarez, people in England have serious issues with been called those words and there lies Suarez problem even if he thinks he been used as an example.

Would you rather these cases go to court or handled by the FA. Do you realise if you are a convicted Racist your work permit could be yanked instantly??? One thing for fact is he did use those words, whether in a friendly term or not and for some people there is nothing friendly about those words.

[Paul Marin]

Sass, first, we are wholly in agreement on most of what you said. Here are my issues:

yeah but what is not in doubt is he said something that offended Evra, even if Evra was guilty of taunting him. It maybe a court in the interest of the FA but it is needed.

Agreed, but the proceeding has to be fair. This one was not.

When you see so many minorities don't go to games in England because of tugs especially the lower divisions have serious problems it is hard to even think that he shouldn't apologise and move on for me. Even if I accept the fact that he is coming from somewhere else.

This is where I think the whole thing was handled poorly by EVERYONE. Both players needed smarter authorities than those they were availed of, but especially Suarez. That's not his fault.

While it may not seem offensive to Suarez, people in England have serious issues with been called those words and there lies Suarez problem even if he thinks he been used as an example.

What do you mean by "those words"? Do you realize Evra said he called him everything from "black" through "n.i.g.g.e.r"? I posted this before in another thread: http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/s...fag#post341517

Imagine two men sitting in a bar in NYC. One an English tourist and the other, an American native. They get into friendly conversation. The Englishman - a smoker - turns to the American and asks "Oi mate, where can one find himself some fags around here? I'm dyin' to suck on one." Subsequently, the Englishman finds himself in jail accused by the American of soliciting prostitution.
How do you try the man? Based on his intent or the American being offended?

As for whether I think these cases should be tried in a court of law - ABSOLUTELY!!!! KICK THEM OUT IF THEY ARE GUILTY!!!! REVOKE THEIR WORK PERMIT!!!! FINE THEM ALL THEIR EARNINGS!!!! LEAVE THEM WITH THE CLOTHES ON THEIR BACK AND WISH THEM GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!!

But treat them fairly. That's the key. Innocent until proven guilty (beyond a reasonable charge) and make the prosecution have the "burden of proof". Not that crazy a notion I don't think. The FA tribunal was a kangaroo court.

[Paul Marin]

Sass, first, we are wholly in agreement on most of what you said. Here are my thoughts:

yeah but what is not in doubt is he said something that offended Evra, even if Evra was guilty of taunting him. It maybe a court in the interest of the FA but it is needed.

Agreed, but the proceeding has to be fair. This one was not.

When you see so many minorities don't go to games in England because of tugs especially the lower divisions have serious problems it is hard to even think that he shouldn't apologise and move on for me. Even if I accept the fact that he is coming from somewhere else.

This is where I think the whole thing was handled poorly by EVERYONE. Both players needed smarter authorities than those they were availed of, but especially Suarez. That's not his fault.

While it may not seem offensive to Suarez, people in England have serious issues with been called those words and there lies Suarez problem even if he thinks he been used as an example.

What do you mean by "those words"? Do you realize Evra said he called him everything from "black" through "n.i.g.g.e.r"? I posted this before in another thread: http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/s...fag#post341517

Imagine two men sitting in a bar in NYC. One an English tourist and the other, an American native. They get into friendly conversation. The Englishman - a smoker - turns to the American and asks "Oi mate, where can one find himself some fags around here? I'm dyin' to suck on one." Subsequently, the Englishman finds himself in jail accused by the American of soliciting prostitution.
How do you try the man? Based on his intent or the American being offended?

As for whether I think these cases should be tried in a court of law - ABSOLUTELY!!!! KICK THEM OUT IF THEY ARE GUILTY!!!! REVOKE THEIR WORK PERMIT!!!! FINE THEM ALL THEIR EARNINGS!!!! LEAVE THEM WITH THE CLOTHES ON THEIR BACK AND WISH THEM GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!!

But treat them fairly. That's the key. Innocent until proven guilty (beyond reasonable doubt) and make the prosecution have the "burden of proof". Not that crazy a notion I don't think. The FA tribunal was a kangaroo court.

[OJ]

you reaching... that happened to us in Sweden.. the bredda from wolves says mate do you have a fag to my bredin.. my bredin an ignant polish canadian say you want what... then we understood... but you stretch this to i dont talk to blackies??? so if he said i dont talk to black people thats ok?

[Peter R]

It would have been unususal as Suarez would have said "porque vos sos negro" as he speaks River Plate Spanish...

[Peter R]

That's what Evra says , did Suarez admit to that? ...

What gets me is the willingness by all to label Suarez a racist... some of you seem to have back-tracked on that and have fallen back to say he used a no no word... eff when you did first reach Canada an call a man a "chiney man" and get call up fi dat and had your name raked through the coals... how would you have reacted? especially if some body found you "guilty" of racial abuse? It's a simple question, try and answer it.