Suarez 1...2...3

[Paul Marin]

intentional handball is unsporting behaviour if the ref determines that based on what he sees of the infraction.... where does it say you cannot kick down a player without playing the ball? you wheel and come again! have you ever seen a ref give a yellow card for a handball? have you ever seen a ref NOT give a card for a handball? what is the difference? perhaps in one instance it was unsporting and in the other it was not? what you seem to be saying is that the referee has no discretion..

I'm beginning to believe you can't read. Directly from my last post:

What are you trying to say here? Please clarify. As for the rest of your post, this part is fine...

Originally Posted by Gamma
i spoke to a FIFA ref who said that the decision whether or not to issue a yellow card for a handball infraction, is within the discretion of the referee...

How much clearer can it be than that? Once again, you are wrong. Next:

i am saying that that is why suarez got the red card for the goalie save ... i.e. his intentional handball is and remains the cheating.

I know why he got the red, but he is by your definition a cheat ONLY because he handled the ball. As I said, then EVERY handball infraction is cheating. If this is your position, please acknowledge that if a man hands the ball in his own area, in the middle of the park, in the other team's area, on the left wing, right wing or all points in between - by your definition, he is a cheat...which any 3 year old could tell you is ridiculous.

If you are NOW saying that he is a cheat because he denied them a clear goal scoring opportunity, then you are changing your argument. Remember again, you said:

"EVERY INTENTIONAL handball is cheating. I cannot make it any more simple than that!" Those are your words, not mine. So cut to the chase, are you changing your mind? Simple question.

[Gamma]

EVERY INTENTIONAL HANDBALL IS A CHEAT ..... more importantly suarez' red was for denying etc etc ....but MOST IMPORTANTLY SUAREZ is a cheat for his deliberate and intentional handball which as a matter of fact denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity, which is the genesis of all this. if it was not deliberate, i do not think we would be having this conversation. as i also said, a man who deliberately and intentionally handles a ball to prevent a pile, is also a cheat and as such he would get a yellow for unsportsmanlike behavious....

i am sorry but to me your beliefs (unwritten rules and all)here are not really conclusive of anything. your reading may be fine but your comprehension seems to be suspect. i am prepared to abide by the information provided to me by the ref (i can give you his name in a pm if you like) and you can check his staus of the FIFA website.

i tire of this. based on all the information contained in this thread, suarez is a cheat ... punto final. thanks for the discourse.

[Paul Marin]

EVERY INTENTIONAL HANDBALL IS A CHEAT .....
i tire of this. based on all the information contained in this thread, suarez is a cheat ... punto final. thanks for the discourse.

...and therefore, every player in the history of the game, including EVERY person on this board who has ever played the game is a cheat because no one who has ever played the game at any level has never been called for a hand ball infraction. So again, why single Suarez out?

So why you can't just admit you have no argument?

I gave you several opportunities to reframe your nonsensical accusations but you didn't take them, so you dogmatically put yourself in a box so direct your frustration at the mirror.

Weak arguments, strong personality = frustration. "Punto final"

Hush, don' mine...this is good fodder for me throughout the rest of the season...I will be pointing out all those "cheats" to you all day long. LOL!!!

[Gamma]

in your mind you have proven something to yourself, i cannot argue with that. you have not convinced me that he is not a cheat. you disagree with me, fine. i haven't convinced you that he is a cheat, fine too. i am convinced that he is cheat, that too has to be fine, at least with me. there is nothing more to add. OK? done.

i will give you this too, you have the dibs on type A personality!

[Paul Marin]

in your mind you have proven something to yourself, i cannot argue with that. you have not convinced me that he is not a cheat. you disagree with me, fine. i haven't convinced you that he is a cheat, fine too. i am convinced that he is cheat, that too has to be fine, at least with me. there is nothing more to add. OK? done.

i will give you this too, you have the dibs on type A personality!

Me? Type A? Naah sah...I am a pushover. By the way, I have not disagreed with you that he is a cheat, just that if he is, then all of us who have played the game are. Likkle more. Me done now. Mi tyad. Tek dis fi di weekend but come wid anythin' mi don' like Monday mawnin', an is back to dis --->

P.S. I was hoping you would keep going; I wanted to see if we could bring down di board.

[Zeppo]

Gamma, do you feel the same way about Thierry Henry -- for his intentional handball that eliminated Ireland from the WC playoffs -- as you do about Suarez?

[Gamma]

yes he cheated and that had huge consequences for ireland. how can there be any doubt about that?

suarez is an excellent footballer, and a cheat!

[Paul Marin]

Gamma, do you feel the same way about Thierry Henry -- for his intentional handball that eliminated Ireland from the WC playoffs -- as you do about Suarez?

Not to start this debate all over again, but you know I disagree that the two (Suarez and Henry's infractions) are comparable. One was deceitful, the other took his medicine within the rules and did not escape retribution. While that doesn't mean anything to some, it matters to me as I do not agree with those who say that merely breaking a rule is cheating. It is the player's attempt to fool the officials that is cheating. Just stating my position.

[Peter R]

I was outraged last year by what Suarez did, even more so than at Henry's version of the handball... in the cold light of day I realized my outrage stemmed from the fact that I wanted Ghana to win that match badly and that the missed penalty had only succeeded in adding insult to injury.

After the dust settled I asked myself what I would have done in Suarez's position and immediately my answer was :"exactly the same thing"... in the case of the Henry type handball I highly doubt that it would have entered my mind to handle the ball. In other words I can relate more to the defensive handball on the line than to the offensive one... that's me.

Having said that , the Henry handball, not just ONCE but TWICE and the fact he got away with it MUST make you believe in conspiracy theories, or at least make you go hmmmmm... and that to me is the biggest outrage of all; not so much the commission of the infraction but rather the authorities allowing a player to get away with it!!

[Paul Marin]

I was outraged last year by what Suarez did, even more so than at Henry's version of the handball... in the cold light of day I realized my outrage stemmed from the fact that I wanted Ghana to win that match badly and that the missed penalty had only succeeded in adding insult to injury.

After the dust settled I asked myself what I would have done in Suarez's position and immediately my answer was :"exactly the same thing"... in the case of the Henry type handball I highly doubt that it would have entered my mind to handle the ball. In other words I can relate more to the defensive handball on the line than to the offensive one... that's me.

Having said that , the Henry handball, not just ONCE but TWICE and the fact he got away with it MUST make you believe in conspiracy theories, or at least make you go hmmmmm... and that to me is the biggest outrage of all; not so much the commission of the infraction but rather the authorities allowing a player to get away with it!!

Everyone was vex...but I think some of us were more vex with Gyan for missing the penalty. He had the hangman's noose in his hands and he failed to execute. Still, you can't stay vex with Gyan for too long as his own memories of "what could have been" will haunt him to his dying day. And that is sad; you don't want that on any player's head.