Overseas-based players a must

[ForFar]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

HL must be snickering his head off.

Very few of you agreed with his 8:3 ratio!!

I later read where he revised the ratio to 10:1(Clap)

[Karl]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

GaryD: Agreed!

...but, I am sure all Jamaicans have 'tight' links with our past - history and cluture...and, more.

The question is what really makes us/defines us asJamaicans?

[Karl]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

Mosiah (1/18/2007)<DIV>From the Luton interview:</DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV>MM: Okay. We saw the clip on the website. Good goal!
With the Gold Cup coming up, you have some big plans, big hopes for that tournament?

LS: Yeah, big hopes. Praying and hoping that I get enough games because you know a lot of overseas players are going to come over.

MM: What do you think about that?

LS: I don’t think it is necessary because the local-based players playing very good sides and winning, so I don’t think we really need the overseas players because the overseas players feel like they have achieved everything already and come in with the star mentality thing and when they are here they are gone to one place leaving the rest of the players. Local based players stay together and play hungry and show you that they want it. Overseas players play like they already achieved what they wanted to achieve.
</DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV>Surely, Luton did not just exclude himself by the above statement. Then again, if him come back with a "dun rich arready" attitude, better him stay whey him deh!</DIV>

Yuh seit? Nonsense argument by Luton.

...as he said, then... :w00t:

...it means today he does not qualify! :w00t: Right? :w00t: :w00t::crazy::crying::w00t:

[GaryD]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

That goes without saying. Whether dem come from Mocho or Manchester, they have to attend finishing school so they can produce and team play effectively.

However, I think that althoughthis isimportant, itis a secondary issue. The real issue(s) is (are) whether people born overseas or those who left at a young age deserve the chance to represent Jamaica. In otherwords are they Jakans.

As an asidethis isssue is not only limited to Jakans. Muzzy Izzet had problems with the nationalistic Turks. My Iranian friend blames the German influence in their team for their dismal performance in Germany.

Apart from the economic aspects of this, I think we need to balance our nationalistic fervor (which is useless inthe grand scheme of things) with pragmatism: JA has 2.7M people (US has 30M registered players), which means given all the other sports, the talent pool for players and coaches are limited. I could on and on.

I would like to ask all the "yu no born ya..." camp, how many "English" people were on the U-17 team that made history in New Zealand by failing to score? How many were on the U-20 in Argentina when we got hammered? How did Portmore do against Club America, again?

The bottom line is that we need to be pragmatic and realistic.This doesn't mean we shouldn't have astructured integration programinstead of afly by night one if possible. We need to recognized that although a lot of things can be done to improve out game, weare still be limited by among others, the size of the population on the island. Simoes knew this and I hope Bora does.

Guidance

[Karl]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

GaryD (1/18/2007)That goes without saying. Whether dem come from Mocho or Manchester, they have to attend finishing school so they can produce and team play effectively.

However, I think that althoughthis isimportant, itis a secondary issue. The real issue(s) is (are) whether people born overseas or those who left at a young age deserve the chance to represent Jamaica. In otherwords are they Jakans.

As an asidethis isssue is not only limited to Jakans. Muzzy Izzet had problems with the nationalistic Turks. My Iranian friend blames the German influence in their team for their dismal performance in Germany.

Apart from the economic aspects of this, I think we need to balance our nationalistic fervor (which is useless inthe grand scheme of things) with pragmatism: JA has 2.7M people (US has 30M registered players), which means given all the other sports, the talent pool for players and coaches are limited. I could on and on.

I would like to ask all the "yu no born ya..." camp, how many "English" people were on the U-17 team that made history in New Zealand by failing to score? How many were on the U-20 in Argentina when we got hammered? How did Portmore do against Club America, again?

The bottom line is that we need to be pragmatic and realistic.This doesn't mean we shouldn't have astructured integration programinstead of afly by night one if possible. We need to recognized that although a lot of things can be done to improve out game, weare still be limited by among others, the size of the population on the island. Simoes knew this and I hope Bora does.

Guidance

GaryD your number please! ...and, this is a direct response to your above post!

Thanks!

My number- 917-309-0969

[Mosiah]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

<DIV>His 8 referred to UB40s in the true sense of the word.</DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV>That will never happen!</DIV>

[Siya]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

Gary you are a thinking man so show me two of these guys whoqualify to represent us by any definition that would come if drafted by the Jamaican military.

The argument is not who is Jamaican we all know that Jamaicans become very patriotic when they move abroad and its scary that kids born in foreign countries to Jamaican parents oftenidentify themselveswith Jamaica first over powerful first world countrieswhere they are born.

The JFF is chartered asthe promoter of local football and the national team representstheir organization planning and developmentcapabilities so how does bringing in the next best English man and putting him in a yellow jersey represent the football Jamaica produces.

Isn't that a bit like the local farmers association bringing in pumpkins grown by Jamaicans abroad and using them as Jamaican pumpkins in some international expo because fi we pumpkin dem small.

[Assasin]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

Brethren mi nuh matter how a man GET to be Jamaican whether him grandfather is born, him married or stow away. That is a non issue for me. If he is good enough he is good enough but too often we just think they are good enough to take us to the next level without properly preparing. If we have a system in place then we will know who will fit in. You notice how Chelsea system nuh fit the great "Shev" at least now.

Well many of these player come not knowing what to expect and is not given a good camp with the local players to jell. I can only use my experience as a former player and manager to tell that looking to star player who never train with the team is a recipe for failure.

When it comes to overseas Jamaicans, I am one living outside and all my life I have be sorround by people borned outside of Jamaica and having Jamaican heritige so it is a non-issue for me. We just can't use them as a excuse for not preparing our youngsters and say them nuh good enough.

We may have been beaten badly at the youth world cups but the fact is we went there and how many of other teams went?

[Siya]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

That's what I want us to get at . What are we really talking about? I would hate to think that all this time that we have been arguing this point some people were confusing the issue of Jamaican players whotransfer abroadwith theissue of UB40s.

[Karl]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

Siya (1/18/2007)That's what I want us to get at . What are we really talking about? I would hate to think that all this time that we have been arguing this point some people were confusing the issue of Jamaican players whotransfer abroadwith theissue of UB40s.

Jamaican players - includethe so-called "UB40s".

Boss: Jamaican players are...Jamaican players! End of story!

[GaryD]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

Actually if I am drafted by the JDFI wouldn't show up, so I would suggest a better litmus test.

I am not sure if "....local" football is part of the JFF charter. I question why a charter should have "local' stated explicitly. I would think the JFF is interested in promoting and developing Jamaican football.

As for the pumpkin analogy, that is an excellent point. Perhaps the farmer should say, given that I have dissected this pumpkin and now know how it was developed(fertilized) and chemically enhanced, I am going to do the same for our local pumpkins if the conditions are right. Afterall, aren't these the pumpkins my local pumpkins are going to compete against in the internationally markets.

I think you shot down your own argument. If you insist that the issue not who is Jamaican, then why the reference to "English" man. For me that is the crux of the matter: Who is a Jamaican, who benefits from the spoils of "things Jamaican"&amp; who contributes to Jamaica.Now are you sure that the "English man" is not consuming any Jamaican produce including the maaga pumpkins? Are you sure their parents are not contributing to the wellfare of Jamaica. I wonder how many Reggae CDs Paul Hall has. I bet at least one. Maybe it is Swedish Reggae. What exactly is your criteria for being a Jamaican? Birth certificate saying KPH, Andrews Memorial (strike that it's above cross roads and we know dem only consume foreign goods).

I think we should seek and develop talents locally. I think we should seek talents overseas. If our limited population size and resourses don't convince of this need, then no argument I put forth will. Lastly, if I owned a big Jamaican company from which the JFF is seeking sponsorship, I would insist on them looking overseas, why? Well who is most likely to buy my pumpkins? Few time visitors from Idaho or those rabid pickneys born overseas.

Guidance

[OJ]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

Assasin would you invite Jermaine Pennant to the natl team?

[Siya]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

End of your story. You make a statement and then say your statement is the end of the story comrade Stalin? This argument has raged for so long that you must know that's not the end of the story.

I want to know what people are arguing about Karl. Seems to me some vexation is stemming from people thinking others are saying that players we export abroad should no longer play for Jamaica. And I am about to get vex if people are still saying our squads MUST include UB40s or are they saying must include our pros that we export. Because we aren't getting any Ronaldinhos among the UB 40s that we have beenimporting so I cant believe with all the players wehave sentabroad that anyone would still say we MUST use UB-40s.

What are we talking about we need better definitions to stop more hignarancy from starting over here.

[Siya]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

<SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__c tl7_lblFullMessage>

<SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__c tl7_lblFullMessage>Actually if I am drafted by the JDFI wouldn't show up, so I would suggest a better litmus test. </SPAN>

</SPAN>

I actually wouldn't use any other litmus test other than something unpleasant and legally required like military service that would elicit a response from these guys. I would like to hear the reasons given by these guys who should play football for us if they were told the Jamaican government has identified you as a citizen and issued legal documents for you to come and do military service...

I am not sure if "....local" football is part of the JFF charter. I question why a charter should have "local' stated explicitly. I would think the JFF is interested in promoting and developing Jamaican football.

By local football I am not sure where you are going with that rebuttal as what else could local football mean other than 'Jamaican football'?

if I owned a big Jamaican company from which the JFF is seeking sponsorship, I would insist on them looking overseas,

You cant be serious I thought this 'gladist' attitude about the one dem who'speak' nice being on the team went out after the post Burton UB40's started flopping left to right. So Blue Mountain coffee would start to insist that a player of Japanese descent be on the team at all times as that is their primary market. Sandals would insist that a white player be on the team as that is the make up of their main market.

You can talk about KPH and Swedish CDs all day but in the context of football I would like someone to explain to me one day why a player who has never had contact with any football institution in Jamaica must be acceptedunquestioned as aJamaican footballer under the guise of "well technically he is a Jamaican citizen so..." If that is so then lets go back to my military servicetheory and see if a situation ever happened and our military drafted the kids of Jamaican ex-pats telling them "well technically you are Jamaican citizensso..." what would the response be. Wouldanyone then be furthering the argument that they are Jamaicans too so they should come orare you guysjust football fans who want to win at all costs including the most obvious short-cut of drafting any andevery ready made player. What are we going to do if we make it to every world cup with our UB40 policy? Win? No! So why not show some patience with our football a - one man can come if him good but to have a policy and keep bringing in mostly second rate players who still average -5 GDwhen they go to Mexico is a definite no-no.

[Mosiah]

RE: Overseas-based players a must

<DIV>I would love the Forumites (Karl?)to answer these questions:</DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV>1. Which UB-40 set the place afire with his skill, goal-scoring ability, leadership or whatever? (Notice the question implies a solitary player.)</DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV>2. Which ones didn't? (Question in the plural.)</DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>