Mourinho using Wingers as always to win

[Jangle]

B!tch Slap him yes Sass!!!

[Sir X]

Thats the objective to bring me down to his level or beneath it.Objective achieved a painfull lesson indeed.

[Jangle]

Thats the objective to bring me down to his level or beneath it.Objective achieved a painfull lesson indeed.

Cho man, where is Xcuse? I miss him so............ I thought it would be fun to kick the Loserpool dawg when he was down but with the sorry state you are in, and Paul Marin's current predicament it is no fun.

[Paul Marin]

Disagree , value does not start on the tranfer day but the whispers before it .Rafa underestimated his value by trying to off load him cheaply or was he trying to gauge his value ? and when the whispers got out for how cheap , Real stepped in , other suitors did too, but his heart was with Real....I really cant see how you can say that when H&G tells you after purchasing Torres you have to sell if you want to buy , whom is he going to sell ?

X, I never said we were trying to offload him cheaply. Rafa wanted 18M pounds for him. Arsenal, Juve and others were not prepared to pay that in the summer 08 window. His value rose considerably when Liverpool made the title challenge in 08/09. So if Rafa was trying to gauge his value, then he clearly started higher than the market was prepared to pay, not cheaply as you suggest.

"The Barry factor was all about money , he wanted to sell Alonso for a hefty price and buy Barry at a decent price and another player, well CITY swooped in and the price went threw the roof , Alonso left , we got the money and bought Aquailani leaving 10 million in the bank for H&G to spend on the debt.Maxi, Skertel and Nygog were also purchased. Good piece of business.Bad piece of movement to disrupt the chemistry.

Okay - I can accept that he wanted a "hefty" price for Alonso, but as I said before, he floated 18M as the price tag in summer '08. No takers. Then what? Villa floats 18M for Barry. If it is as you say, Rafa outsmarted himself by trying to sell Alonso before tying up a deal with Barry (at a decent price). Had he done this with more tact, Xabi would still be a red.

This tees up my second point. Where is your evidence for this statement below?

The thing about Alonso what some here conviently leave out (Paul) is that Alonso wanted to go to Real from his days at Real Sociedad and Real ignored him , he went with Rafa to pool and built his rep(value) , after one season of a disagreement with Rafa (the typical transfer rumours ) he hands it in to Liverpool ! now you tell me where is his heart to fight for his team , his place ,his liverpool ?

Xabi has stated in more than one interview - consistently - that he reconsidered his future after the club tried to peddle him. He stated in an interview with SKY

“Last summer the club proposed to me that I might have to be sold...It was a difficult decision or difficult moment to accept that. I accepted that as a professional and that moment probably changed my mind and I thought that maybe from that moment that maybe it was time for a change.”

This is the kind of mentality that is consistent with someone that has been scorned. As I said, if Rafa had handled this with more tact, Alonso would have stayed. You can't expect loyalty from the player when the club is trying to sell him.

While I agree that MONEY may have been the reason behind wanting to sell Xabi in Summer '08, the fact of the matter is that Xabi left the club in Summer '09 because we were not loyal to him (and because of the World Cup - that last bit is my speculation). The blame for his departure has to rest squarely on Rafa's shoulders because he did not handle the situation with enough fidelity to give the player "the love" he deserved.

[Sir X]

A fan speaks

O.K lets move on From Rafa onto Hodgson

And although funds were tight certain acquisitions have beggared belief. Christian Poulsen is the best thing to ever happen to Lucas, making the Brazilian seem like a world-beater. Likewise Paul Konchesky cannot surely be deemed a long-term solution at left-back?

It is truly devastating to think that those fees combined (around £8 million) could have lured Rafael Van Der Vaart to Anfield.

As mentioned in my last article, Hodgson seems to be struggling with the magnitude of this position, as if he cannot shake himself out of a mid-table mind-set and embrace the monster that is managing a top European force.

However with a change in ownership now secured the club’s long-term future does look decidedly brighter. NESV will desperately want to support the manager but he needs to ensure he does not isolate himself. If you lose the supporters, the Liverpool hot-seat can become a very lonely place. Just ask Graeme Souness…


I agree, your absolutely ON TARGET…I was and I am a big fan of Rafa…he had to work under pressure…manage a team without significant resources…and most of all he was the only manager that we got close to clinching the title for so many years…even our board extended his contract…started to invest in youth…what in a heck did they extend his contract for? Sacked him because he finished 7th ? I am not an expert…but I think you have to look at things overall…and then judge…Our board is guilty as Rafa…is it?! He was and he is a top class manager … exactly …see how many clean sheets we had under his guidance, how many goals did Torres scored per season, even though he was injured most of the time…how many players did he help to develop into world class players… see Mascherano, Alonso, Garragher reborn and so many others. Of course he did mistakes…aren’t we all????!!!.... In times…Is disgrace and disrespect shown from the players to the fans, the owners to blame…yes, what about another excuse?…and how we played against Blackpool was awful…it was around 60th minute of the match and I saw the attempts on goal…Liverpool 12…Blackpool 10!!! Unbelievable!!!...We have a problem…and they need to solve it quickly…although I believe it will take a long time to do it…I am optimistic but the picture of the team in the first 7 games was with one word miserable…As Benitez said to us ‘’YOU WILL NEVER WALK ALONE’’…What a great manager…we should have given him time…and resources. Mourinho said the last years we are going from bad to worse, but he forgets ours encounters…that we throw them out several times from the champions league and beaten them in the league the last couple of years…with Rafa’s ‘’miserable squad of players’’…well hard to agree…not mentioning how many millions did Mr Abramovich spend on transfers!!!...Mr Mourinho had a on the bench substitutes worth at least 15 million each…so do your equation, is simple. I agree and I am angry…1). how Mr Hodgson defends Torres, not mentioning living him helpless up front, 2). criticizing and calling the fans helpless over the protest, he doesn’t know what is happening to our beloved club? or he came from another world? 3). Calling the team who lost in the carling cup ‘’B team’’…I didn’t know that we had Liverpool B team…or do we???!!! 4). Picking a (virtually) full-strength team away in the Europa League, and expecting Torres’ muscles to be 100% three days later. I thought he was going to use the ‘B’ team in the early stages, as he did at Fulham? 5). Not buying a striker; I know Rafa struggled to find one at the right price, but it was the clear priority of the summer. Aquilani was bought to replace Alonso, and was now fit; and so, instead of going for Meireles and then not using him properly, why not keep Aquilani and buy a striker? 6). Leaving it to the 80-minute mark in several games to make the first change, when a result was needed. (One of the TTT subscribers sits behind the manager’s dugout, and said he’d never seen a Liverpool manager so passive during a match.) 7). And do we really want to see Kyrgiakos as a centre-forward late in games against Northampton and Blackpool? Admittedly it nearly worked, but if we have to resort to desperate long-balls rather than try and play through lesser teams at Anfield, it’s a sign of grave concern. 8). Paying £5m for mediocre players who are near the end of their careers (Konchesky, and the frankly risible Poulsen). Paying £11m for Meireles – a very good player – and using him as a wide midfielder (albeit one forced to play horribly narrow). 9). Saying Rafael Van Der Vaart doesn’t fit the profile of the kind of player he was interested in. 10). Alienating Agger. Potentially a world-class centre-back. But doesn’t fit Roy’s style, which involves not taking chances with footballers in defence. One of the best players at the club, but not utilised. Of course only time will show…but the beginning as I said is miserable…whatever crisis you might be passing through, teams like Sunderland and Blackpool you should play and win with 4-0 at least, especially at home…and not conceding 4 goals!!! I am not saying that we should sack Mr Hodgson…but we shouldn’t have hired him in the first place. Don’t misunderstand me…He is a nice man…but I think this job is too much for him…and the biggest error of all is… taking a team with players suited to pressing and rather than working with what he had, trying to reverse it. If anything was broken under Benítez, it was his relationship with Carragher and Gerrard, and one or two less-influential players. The tactics were not the issue (look at how they were often successfully deployed at the World Cup) and maybe now people are seeing that. Liverpool pressed high and hard – and fast from the start – and it suited Torres, Kuyt and Gerrard. It made it easier to create chances, because errors were forced. It gave the game some energy. It now suits Samuel Eto’o at Inter: “With Mourinho we played on the counter-attack, with Benítez we press more and that’s better for us forwards because we win back the ball higher up the pitch and create more chances.”Eto’o has 11 goals already this season, after just 16 last time. Torres has … one. And yes… Torres is ISOLATED…for Torres under Hodgson, it’s … one goal in nine games. I will leave you to do your mathematics and your conclusions, maybe I over doing it…maybe…but when you stop believing in coincidence then you will see the truth and the realism…like I see it… as long as the spirit of SHANKLY LIVES…WE WILL NEVER WALK ALONE…ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL…

[Peter R]

Alonso also got married I seem to have read somewhere ... Maybe the wife wanted him back in Spain?!?

[Paul Marin]

X - Everything you write about Rafa is true, but there will be others who will argue. In his first years at Anfield, he brought us two champions league finals, a UCL trophy, an FA Cup and made mincemeat of Real Madrid and Barca and who can forget the champions league victories over Chelski and Arsenal. He is one of the top 5 managers in club football without question.

However, the reason he had to leave the club (after we extended his contract only the season before) was that he made some terrible mistakes culminating in a 7th place finish at a time when the club could ill afford it.

He also publicly aired his riffs with the owners and board and put blame at everyone else's feet but his own. His relationships with his players had also broken down - it just could not go on.

As one of those that supported his departure, I thank him for his service. He remains one of the best managers in football and the genius of Istanbul!! Us Liverpool fans will always thank him for that magical night.

As for Roy, I think he's a decent bloke, but there is no denying he is no where near as accomplished as Rafa. He will have to make some serious progress if he expects the Liverpool faithful to back him. Still, I doubt he will be in place by year's end. The new owners are - I hope - making it clear to Roy what is expected. For now, we have to give him this season and see where it goes. For my money, John Henry should be on a plane NOW talking to replacement candidates...but that is a discussion for another day.

YNWA.