Still waiting for someone to answer my question

[Islandman]

If an opposing player has a clear path or clear shot to goal, lets say from 10 yards or less, and a defender on your team deliberately holds him from behind and prevents him from taking the shot, gets a red card and gives up a penalty, IS THAT CHEATING? Is your defender a piece of sh%%t that you could no longer support?

If the answer is no, explain how, from a moral perspective, that is different from what the Uruguay player did.

I do understand the debate about wether the rule should be looked at. That is not what I am asking here.

[Gamma]

i think that the rule is the same now in either case BUT when the man tek the shot many things can happen ... people miss from less than 10 yards...but the handball on the goal line? is only one thing could a happen and that is the ball go in the net. to me, that is a significant difference!

look the rules were properly employed, but i think the goal line handball thing merits a review.

[Islandman]

Is it cheating? Yes or no.

Me nuh see how "play the whistle" is not cheating but this is cheating. Makes no sense.

I agree a review is in order but then we haffe decide what qualifies as "on the goal line". Suppose I am 1 yard away from the line and hold the ball? You would ahffe leave it up to the ref to determine I guess.

[Gamma]

it is. it is not playing by the rules. rules seh yuh not to use yuh hands...well there it is. rules say no professioanl fouls same thing. intent makes it cheating.

[Islandman]

But what Germany goalie did was "play the whistle"? That was not cheating?

Gamma you not making sense, and that is very rare.

[Islandman]

Well at least you draw an equivalence between the professional foul and the hand ball on the line. They are one and the same morally, whichever way you look at it. Consistency is all I ask.

I would say what Germany goalie did was worse. THe goal SCORED and he did what he could to make it look like it did not score. As for scoring with your hand and taking credit, that is even worse.

[Gamma]

"playing by the rules" ... did not see the germany goalie incident. but 2 things happen here, breaking the rules and getting caught (i.e. playing the whistle.

back the ghana, the handball on the line (cheating) the player was punished and the appropriate remedy applied. cheating and the rules of the game applied STILL cheating. what if the ref did not see or call it STILL cheating but no whistle no infraction.

so although i did not see the incident you are talking about (i may have been travelling) playing the whistle is a part of the game but that doesn't mean that the action was not cheating (whaterer it is).

thierry henry cheated in the ireland game, no whistle game went on cheating nonetheless.

[Islandman]

Germany goalie, England? Yu forget already?

Anyway, from your arguments you have clearly agreed it was also cheating, so I take back my "not making sense" comment.

[Gamma]

ok...i got you. saw the replays ....

regarding the german keeper if he was not sure if it passed (split second) then to make sure he continued with the game...what should he have done though? the call is for the ref or linesman to make.

some gamesmanship there (like an lbw when the batsman moves immediately after or a caught behind appeal where the batsman does not look back).

i do not equate the handball on the line, the intentional foul and the german goalie's reaction. to me they are on a sliding scale of cheating....

the problem is the remedy! as i said, with the foul the player could have STILL missed the goal. the germany keeper, well the remedy for that would gave been a goal the handball on the goalline, the remdey is red card and pk even though it would have been a goal.

[Islandman]

Yeah a sliding scale but I think we disagree on which one is on the low end of the scale.

Re cricket, to me the lbw and the caught behind are also a bit different. LBW is very often a judgement, and the umpire is in the best poition to make that judgement. VERY rare to walk for an LBW. For a caught behind, usually the batsman knows he is/is not out, so is in a much better position to make the decision to walk when he is out, and that has been a part of the game of cricket.

Anyway, in summary I feel it for Ghana as much as anybody and this particular incident is as strong a case as could be made for why that rule needs to be reviewed, but if you ask me if FIFA should ban that player for more than the standard 1 game I would say a resounding NO. Change the rules if necessary and move on.

[Assasin]

What is the difference if he hand it on the 1 yard line or two yard line than on the goal line?

[Lazie]

If an opposing player has a clear path or clear shot to goal, lets say from 10 yards or less, and a defender on your team deliberately holds him from behind and prevents him from taking the shot, gets a red card and gives up a penalty, IS THAT CHEATING? Is your defender a piece of sh%%t that you could no longer support?

If the answer is no, explain how, from a moral perspective, that is different from what the Uruguay player did.

I do understand the debate about wether the rule should be looked at. That is not what I am asking here.

Good question bredren. I was planning to put it differently but lets see the responses.

[Gamma]

ok...but yuh miss mi point on the lbw...the player WALKS away from the position he was in when the ball struck him so that the umpire cannot get a second/longer look...re: caught behind...usually if a player nicks it he looks behind to see if it was caught .... so when he doesn't he sends a message that he did not nick it so he does not care.

[Gamma]

on the goal line it is going in...no doubt. at the one or 2 yard line there is more of a chance that it may not go in...but that is a case by case situation...was it capable or was it in fact heading into the goal?

replays could help with that too

[Assasin]

It was headed to the goal without a doubt. The problem is it made no difference if he handed 6 inches, or yard or on the goal line the way it was headed for goal, it was a major upstruction and if you punishing for the goal line well you nead to punish for the 1 yard, 5 yard etc. and I think that was why the designed the penalty box for.