Where are our 18-24 year olds for 2014!!

[Stonigut]

Out of the current crop which is another failed talent harvest, we have left over for 2014 possibly;

Ryan Johnson - 26, Shelton -25
Austin - 25, J. Taylor - 26
Lovel Palmer - 26, Reid - 25 and Vernon - 23, to build around for 2014, the question is who are our top forwards, midfielders and defenders between 17-24 yo right now in Ja and abroad, these guys need to be evaluated, graded for teamwork and talent, knowledge of the game and get the best of them to play together maybe twenty times before the start of the next qulifying for 2014.

Still want to keep 33 years old Ricketts in goal if fit and ready.

[Karl]

Out of the current crop which is another failed talent harvest, we have left over for 2014 possibly;

Ryan Johnson - 26, Shelton -25
Austin - 25, J. Taylor - 26
Lovel Palmer - 26, Reid - 25 and Vernon - 23, to build around for 2014, the question is who are our top forwards, midfielders and defenders between 17-24 yo right now in Ja and abroad, these guys need to be evaluated, graded for teamwork and talent, knowledge of the game and get the best of them to play together maybe twenty times before the start of the next qulifying for 2014.

Still want to keep 33 years old Ricketts in goal if fit and ready.

Those guys you mentioned would have to have their touch improve beyond recognition if they are not to collectively give away the ball (play for the other TEAM) as often as they would drop a hot potato.

Those guys you mentioned would make the England players as they appeared against Germany, look like 'technical genius/on the ball genius!

[Stonigut]

Well can you name a better set of guys than those, I think those are our best right now, I really like Austin, and Taylor in particular, they both bring a lot of intensity to each game as well.

I think many of us generally overrate these guys from other teams anyway, certainly it is not all about the pure talent of individuals if that was the case then England, Italy and France would be in the quarters, at this level everybody is excellent. Professional, contracted, this is my living type of players you are actually looking at an elite of all active players, our style and our boys bring some definitive advantages that cannot be taught.

I love the fact that US plays better than the sum of their individual parts, this point is actually amplified on the other side by England who actually play well below the sum of their individual parts. As I have said many times in the past, if we play a counter attack style ball with our advantages of speed and combativeness and if we can really build the discipline to be the fittest team on the pitch in our ball psyche then I believe we can beat anybody, as we showed with Tappa and team in the last three games pre-hex and there is a lot more potential to mine there.

What people do not realize is that any ball player spends probably at least 50-60 %, probably more, of the game closing space and opening space, in a counter attack style you have to be a master at closing and opening space and playing intelligently with a combative frame of mind.

[Karl]

I love the fact that US plays better than the sum of their individual parts...

...our advantages of speed and combativeness and if we can really build the discipline to be the fittest team on the pitch...I believe we can beat anybody...as we showed with Tappa and team in the last three games pre-hex and there is a lot more potential to mine there.

.

Good!
...but we need far better technical skill (on-the-ball control and one-time passing ability)...TEAM orientation.

Our players...those Tappa had, lack the skill - individually and as TEAM - to keep the ball. Some were also waaaaaaaaaaay too slow. Sure Tappa did a great job with them...but the TEAMs we played, Mexico, Honduras and Costa Rica...played at a level much lower than we are seeing at this World Cup.

Since all other things being equal the game is about the ball...keeping...using..the ball...our touch (individual technical skill)...and our speed, lack thereof by some of our players will have us giving away the ball or never getting to the ball (thus never having it when faster men would have).

What we need is, on the field at all times, X1 players, yeeees GK included) fast technically gifted players to make TEAM!

I am convinced the players are there. The coaches need to 'shut their eyes'...they are currently blind to what is happening at the TOP OF THE WORLD i.e. very best national and club TEAMS, anyway...and chose our fast, technically gifted and smart TEAM players.

You are not fast?
Forget you!

You are not technically gifted?
Forget you!

You are not smart...and thus not thinking TEAM first, TEAM second, TEAM third...ad infinitum?
Forget you!

The players are there! Put them together!

It makes no sense...for example...picking someone who scores 1000 goals in our NPL season who has a poor touch and is slow. At the highest level that person will never keep the ball and will never be able to get to the ball before an opponent as often as our TEAM require. He may score the odd goal but only in our losing efforts. Losing efforts that he would have helped to make possible.

Similarly we cannot keep picking the goalscorer with a fabulous record against our CFU bottom of the barrel opponents...when he plays the selfish...fail to share ball...outlook. He will never be able to repeat his exploits at higher levels as he will lose the ball too often and these higher level TEAMS, unlike the bottom of barrel lot, will keep making us pay! So he may score a few goals...but we lose!

Fast!
Technically proficient!
Thinkers...TEAM PLAYERS!

[Gamma]

ok then!! is there a world cup for playing jacks?

[Karl]

ok then!! is there a world cup for playing jacks?

We have the football players

[Stonigut]

Excellent talk, but the more you elaborated on this is the more i come to the full realization that some football cultures have a certain gift and others do not, is it a representation of the culture from which they are born, Brazil, the netherlands, germany, possibly argentina play a style very distinctive and the touch, the movement of the players within each of those teams combine to create a distinctive style of play, even mexico plays a very good style of ball as well, however what they lack is size and athleticism, until them start getting that they will never get anywhere beyong the quarters.

The truth may be that our culture may never produce that level of cohesion that would manifest itself in each team member growing up playing in a team first stle to the point that when they make the national team it automatically translates in all the players almost without thinking playing in that same cohesive manner, thus playing the type of teamball that we see from these premier teams that continue to dominate at the copa level.

It may simply be that we can never keep and move the ball the way these teams seem to do, they somehow seem to get more from the whole than the individual parts while Spain and england always seem to be going in the other direction. How is it that spain with possibly 15 of the top 50 players can look so average as a team, even when they play their best they never brings the kind of awe that we see from say a Brazil 82 team or Dutch 74/78 bal or even this current german team that can never be said to have 15 of the top 50 players at one time.

Back to Jamaica we are fundamentally a fractured, every man on him own, non team, extremely argumentitive footballing culture, we have certain advantages that we must take advantage of speed, individual competitiveness, very physical challenging style of play, we cannot play the hold the ball the way these other nations play it at least not against the top teams, not for the forseeable future (next 30 years)thus we must play off the ball with speed, counter attack and pressuring the ball and closing space on defense better than everbody else, that is where speed comes in and individual competitiveness comes in,this can be maximized. if fitness can be optimized as well that is an incredible combination this is the best that we will get with jakan ball but that is a lot, we cannot be Brazil, we cannot be the netherlands and we are not germany but we can maximize those things and be a very effective football country that is why i say time and again our style of ball must be anansi ball, we cannot take the show on the road we just not there but we can build a defensive mentality that can strike quickly on the counter with fast physical players with individual skill.

[Stonigut]

Excellent talk, but the more you elaborated on this is the more i come to the full realization that some football cultures have a certain gift and others do not, is it a representation of the culture from which they are born, Brazil, the netherlands, germany, possibly argentina play a style very distinctive and the touch, the movement of the players within each of those teams combine to create a distinctive style of play, even mexico plays a very good style of ball as well, however what they lack is size and athleticism, until them start getting that they will never get anywhere beyong the quarters.

The truth may be that our culture may never produce that level of cohesion that would manifest itself in each team member growing up playing in a team first stle to the point that when they make the national team it automatically translates in all the players almost without thinking playing in that same cohesive manner, thus playing the type of teamball that we see from these premier teams that continue to dominate at the copa level.

It may simply be that we can never keep and move the ball the way these teams seem to do, they somehow seem to get more from the whole than the individual parts while Spain and england always seem to be going in the other direction. How is it that spain with possibly 15 of the top 50 players can look so average as a team, even when they play their best they never brings the kind of awe that we see from say a Brazil 82 team or Dutch 74/78 bal or even this current german team that can never be said to have 15 of the top 50 players at one time.

Back to Jamaica we are fundamentally a fractured, every man on him own, extremely argumentitive footballing culture, we have certain advantages that we must take advantage of speed, individual competitiveness, very physical challenging style of play, we cannot play the hold the ball the way these other nations play it at least not against the top teams, not for the forseeable future (next 30 years)thus we must play off the ball with speed, counter attack and pressuring the ball and closing space on defense better than everbody else, that is where speed comes in and individual competitiveness comes in,this can be maximized. if fitness can be optimized as well that is an incredible combination this is the best that we will get with jakan ball and that is a lot, we cannot be Brazil, we cannot be the netherlands and we are not germany but we can maximize those things and be a very effective football country that is why i say time and again our style of ball must be Anansi ball, pressure, pressure pressure wait for weakness ad opportunity and then strike, we cannot take the show on the road we just not there but we can build a defensive mentality that can strike quickly on the counter with fast physical players with individual skill.

[Karl]

Excellent talk, but the more you elaborated on this is the more i come to the full realization that some football cultures have a certain gift and others do not, is it a representation of the culture from which they are born, Brazil, the netherlands, germany, possibly argentina play a style very distinctive and the touch, the movement of the players within each of those teams combine to create a distinctive style of play, even mexico plays a very good style of ball as well, however what they lack is size and athleticism, until them start getting that they will never get anywhere beyong the quarters.

The truth may be that our culture may never produce that level of cohesion that would manifest itself in each team member growing up playing in a team first stle to the point that when they make the national team it automatically translates in all the players almost without thinking playing in that same cohesive manner, thus playing the type of teamball that we see from these premier teams that continue to dominate at the copa level.

It may simply be that we can never keep and move the ball the way these teams seem to do, they somehow seem to get more from the whole than the individual parts while Spain and england always seem to be going in the other direction. How is it that spain with possibly 15 of the top 50 players can look so average as a team, even when they play their best they never brings the kind of awe that we see from say a Brazil 82 team or Dutch 74/78 bal or even this current german team that can never be said to have 15 of the top 50 players at one time.

Back to Jamaica we are fundamentally a fractured, every man on him own, non team, extremely argumentitive footballing culture, we have certain advantages that we must take advantage of speed, individual competitiveness, very physical challenging style of play, we cannot play the hold the ball the way these other nations play it at least not against the top teams, not for the forseeable future (next 30 years)thus we must play off the ball with speed, counter attack and pressuring the ball and closing space on defense better than everbody else, that is where speed comes in and individual competitiveness comes in,this can be maximized. if fitness can be optimized as well that is an incredible combination this is the best that we will get with jakan ball but that is a lot, we cannot be Brazil, we cannot be the netherlands and we are not germany but we can maximize those things and be a very effective football country that is why i say time and again our style of ball must be anansi ball, we cannot take the show on the road we just not there but we can build a defensive mentality that can strike quickly on the counter with fast physical players with individual skill.

Agreed!
...and I particularly like your last paragraph.

First, as it relates to "hold the ball like..." i.e. possession, I think it can be taught. As you alluded(?) ...said...our current "stars" cannot gain that level of control we desire. That comes from years of doing - 'infant' to adult. That has to be a taught reflex. A conditioned reflex. However, we can start by having our teachers and coaches implant that into the psyche of
the current 'infants' and those coming after i.e. start building that 'conditioned reflex'.

Second - We must also have a concerted effort to impart same to our older players - those older than the 'infants' through to our NPL and national teams. These players will never attain the level we desire...but they will do two things: build better national teams - age-group through to national senior teams - and help in changing the football culture where desire for possession is concerned. That will eventually have the fathers and mothers, sisters and brothers and all in the society demanding that possession game. We are dancers...balance and touch we are good at...lovers we are...and love of the ball would be, with the concerted work through-out the society, 'natural'...become our football cultural norm.

We can make a good national men senior TEAM before next...and through next World Cup qualifiers commence.