Jawge and USAF

[Willi]

How much WCup success is due to SYSTEMS and how much to Talismanic players?

Pele was largely responsible for Brazil 3 Jules Rimet trophies. Not so much in 62, but they still had the confidence and aura of 1958, plus the 62 Cup was in Sth America. Before 1958, Brazil was already known to be a greatly talented football nation, but it took the phenom for them to take that last step.

Same thing for Argentina. They won at home, but it took the talisman Maradona to win away from home and to keep them a constant threat.

Cruyff nearly did the same and Holland would surely have won if he played in 1978.

Zidane was the French talisman and Matteus did the same for Germany 1990 (Rumminegge failed in the finals twice), though they (and Italy) more than the others rely on systems. The one time that Italy had a legit Talisman, he took them to the finals in 1994 (Baggio).

I suggest that Talismanic players are more important to most team than systems.

[Me]

It is about the defensive system. That win World Cup.

[Willi]

If you cant score, you cant win.

Italy won with a defensive team last time because the talisman Zidane self-destructed. Now we know that he was unhappy with Domenech back then, so that may have had him on edge back then.

[Me]

Excuses excuses. Italy won. That simple, not because of any self destruction. Defense won, just like it did the tournaments before.

[Willi]

Oh, I picked Italy to win from the first round after speaking to an unusually calm Italian pal that explained the 16 year formula to me. I had no doubts that Italy would find a way to win and told everyone so. Nuff man had me off a prophet, but I have to call it as I see it.

And I am no fan of Zidane or France, especially due to their waggonist fans. French fans are the WORST...tek it from me, as I lived there for 2 years before and am 5 mins drive from the French border...

[Me]

The game was heading for penalty kicks. They lost, quite simple.

The teams with the solid defensive scheme take the Trophy home. Argentina will try a different approach this year.

[Willi]

BTW, how yuh nuh tell mi seh yuh best player is Argentine????

Cameronesi!

[Me]

Best player?

You nuh see the man had to cut him hair at the end of the last tournament. Is nuff Italian never want him play for the team cause him did dilly dally with him commitment.

[Willi]

Well him a di vibesmaster now.

Look how him liff di whole side last match!!!

Just cause of him why I dont write off Italy.

Is like him a show talismanic qualities. LoL

[Exile]

And Messi?

[Willi]

Talismanic!

[Jawge]

What are you talking about? would have won? Okay brasil would have won if pele played in82. I won't continue the joke argument. Brasil is the standard of world football.

[Willi]

What are U talking about? I was not talking about 1982.

Why dont you address my pint about system vs talisman.

[Karl]

How much WCup success is due to SYSTEMS and how much to Talismanic players?

Pele was largely responsible for Brazil 3 Jules Rimet trophies. Not so much in 62, but they still had the confidence and aura of 1958, plus the 62 Cup was in Sth America. Before 1958, Brazil was already known to be a greatly talented football nation, but it took the phenom for them to take that last step.

Same thing for Argentina. They won at home, but it took the talisman Maradona to win away from home and to keep them a constant threat.

Cruyff nearly did the same and Holland would surely have won if he played in 1978.

Zidane was the French talisman and Matteus did the same for Germany 1990 (Rumminegge failed in the finals twice), though they (and Italy) more than the others rely on systems. The one time that Italy had a legit Talisman, he took them to the finals in 1994 (Baggio).

I suggest that Talismanic players are more important to most team than systems.

Both!
...need both!