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At his home in Milan, Clarence Seedorf's personal physio is working overtime on the AC Milan player's hip. It is late and the physio has already done several sessions, but Milan host Manchester United in the Champions League on Tuesday and Seedorf is desperate to be fit in time. "If my voice suddenly changes, you will know why," he says, as his physio doggedly kneads away.
Seedorf, 33, one of the most decorated players in the modern game, is still as hungry as ever to achieve more. The only player to have won the Champions League with three different clubs – Ajax in 1995, Real Madrid in 1998, and twice with Milan in 2003 and 2007 – he has a career total of 17 club trophies across three European leagues. The Dutchman has played under some of the greatest managers in the game, Fabio Capello, Sven-Goran Eriksson, Carlo Ancelotti, Guus Hiddink, Marcello Lippi, and Louis van Gaal among them, and earned 87 caps for the national side.
That desire stems in part, he says, from his parents – Surinamese immigrants who instilled a strong work ethic in their son as they struggled to forge a new life in the Netherlands. Extended family crammed into the modest family home, "everyone trying to find a better life", he says.
At 14 years old, progressing through the ranks at Ajax, that instinct was strong in Seedorf and he was already insanely competitive. "I was already dreaming about winning the Champions League three times," he says. "My idol, Frank Rijkaard [whom Seedorf also played for during the former Barcelona coach's brief tenure as Holland manager], had won it twice at that stage and so I wanted to win one more than him." He laughs at the memory, but that desire to always have "one more" has not changed in him, even after all his successes.
"When you have ambition then it's never enough to win," he says. "If I was happy with three trophies, then suddenly I had to have four. If I was happy with four then I had to have five. A couple of months [to enjoy it], then when you start again the next season all you can think about it is wanting to do it again."
Which is why Seedorf is so keen to be fit to take his place in midfield for Tuesday's game against Manchester United, a team who hold special memories for him. Milan beat United 3-0 in the second leg of the 2007 semi-final and that night, he says, remains the best moment of his career. Seedorf's performance drew great praise from Wayne Rooney, who told the Italian press that Seedorf was the best footballer he had ever played against.
"We played an incredible game," says Seedorf, smiling at the memory. "Everything about it was fantastic. We began one goal down on aggregate, and it felt like everything was against us." Milan had started that season with a 15-point penalty for their part in the calciopoli scandal. "At the start of that season we could not have imagined winning any trophies. But the team just came together in a way that was really special. We beat Bayern Munich, then Manchester United, and then Liverpool – after losing to them in the [2005] final. It was an incredible explosion of emotions. And it was justice through sport. They wanted to take away our possibility to play in the Champions League when we had done nothing to deserve that, and we won it back."
Seedorf, prodigiously talented, enjoyed success from a young age. At 15 years old his parents turned down an offer from Real Madrid, and aged 16 years and 211 days he made his debut for Ajax, becoming their youngest ever player.
Silverware has been plentiful, but some question whether Seedorf's personality has, at times, caused him undue problems. Highly articulate – he is studying for a masters degree in business – Seedorf is refreshingly expressive and opinionated – but in football terms that means outspoken. Unprompted, he tells a story about being racially abused last year. It is the kind of incident that would give most footballers sleepless nights as they try to decide whether to speak out or not, but Seedorf is totally unfazed. "After the game I wanted to make an official statement," he says, "not to cause a problem but because I wanted to make the point that if players treat each other like this what message do we send to the outside world?"
In the end he felt the Catania player learned a far more personal lesson, as his wife and kids approached Seedorf for autographs and photos after the game. "You can imagine how embarrassing it was for him," he says, taking care to describe the scene. "I didn't say anything, I just turned to him and gave him my hand. The moment was incredible."
Seedorf is deeply spiritual, and does not touch alcohol or coffee. He describes himself as a "volcano" off the pitch, dividing his time between his sports-business company, which manages the Serie C club Monza, and his humanitarian commitments. His charity, Champions for Children, has pioneered an educational playground model for use in developing countries around the world, and his work has brought him into contact with Nelson Mandela, Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Kofi Annan.
For his former club psychologist at Milan, Bruno de Michelis – now at Chelsea – Seedorf is a fascinating case. De Michelis describes him as closer to the personality type of a coach than a footballer. "He talked 10% like a player, 70% like a coach, and 20% like a general manager," he says, "I've never seen such a strong personality."
When Seedorf's biographer approached De Michelis for further insight, the psychologist explained that in football if the manager tells the players to defecate on the pitch, the players would do so without question. "But Seedorf would say: 'Certainly, mister, but what colour should our **************** be?"'
His readiness to speak his mind has not been welcomed by everyone. During Euro 2000 a Dutch public opinion poll showed 81% against his inclusion in the squad, but Seedorf seems genuinely hurt by the suggestion that he is contentious – or unpopular. "Wherever I go the fans are warm to me, even from Inter," he says. "I think I'm outspoken, but I think people respect me for that. Who does not talk cannot be judged. Who does not shoot the penalty cannot miss."
Whatever his own view, over the years stories have circulated about infamous run-ins with managers and players. Famously Fabio Capello, then manager of Real Madrid, was alleged to have thrown his jacket at Seedorf because the player was talking tactics at half-time, shouting: "If you know it all so well, you be the coach!"
Seedorf plays down the story as, "a discussion about nothing", but his recollections of the England manager are revealing. "When you talk about me and Capello, you talk about two personalities. If I have an opinion and I don't agree with you that's it, and he was the same. Capello used the guys with strong personalities – I remember he did it with [striker] Predrag Mijatovic as well – he motivated the team by creating a discussion with somebody, by looking for conflicts. And when he did, the team would go out and kick butt."
He recalls his own version of the jacket-throwing incident – minus the jacket but with a good deal of yelling. "One time we were losing 1-0 to Atlético Madrid," he says, "playing with 10 men, and we came in the dressing room and began talking about the game. Capello was on the other side of the room and he asked what we were talking about, but he didn't listen to the answer he just started yelling. So I yelled back. That was a hot moment. But he wanted to make a statement and it worked: the team went out and won 4-1 and I scored.
"And then just before you go out to play he will clap you on the back. That's his thing, it's over, right there. After the game I remember I walked to my car, and he stopped his car beside me, wound his window down, and shook my hand. That's Capello."
Seedorf remembers the Italian coach fondly, and there is genuine affection in his voice as he describes being taken under his wing. "I was just 19 when he took me to Real Madrid. He asked me personally to go with him, and that carried a lot of importance. He was always very clear and very tough, but also very caring. He was one of the most ****important coaches in my career."
Well accustomed to Capello's autocratic style, Seedorf says he is not at all surprised by the coach's decision to strip John Terry of the England captaincy. "Capello couldn't do anything other than what he did. You have to send out the right message, I don't think you can get away with those things – like Thierry Henry and his handball, that was a big mistake that they did not punish him.
"Footballers are role models. At the One Young World summit [in London] last week I spoke about the responsibility we have as sportsmen in the public eye. Yes it is a shame that the story came out, but paparazzi and tabloids are just part of society and you as a sports celebrity should be aware of the risk.
"But Terry has been a great captain for Chelsea and England, and I hope he will be an even better captain in the future. Everybody makes mistakes."
Seedorf still keeps in touch with Capello, but it is England's first foreign manager with whom he has the closest bond. A year spent at Sampdoria, in the care of Sven-Goran Eriksson, had the biggest impression on his career.
"Eriksson was like a father to me," he says. "He told me about life, he helped me to understand what was needed to survive outside Holland. It went beyond football, it was the culture, the mentality of the Italian players. If you don't understand that, you can become frustrated.
"There were many problems. I came from a country where people expressed their opinions. The mentality in Italy is to shut up and run. That's it in a nutshell. When things go bad don't discuss it, just run harder. In Holland it's: 'Let's sit down and discuss things until we understand what the problem is.'"
Seedorf paints an intimate picture as he describes Eriksson using allegory to explain the Mediterranean football culture that was so alien to his young charge. "He said it was like people building a house. People can relate better to the labourers working on the house than to the architect who actually created it. In Italy everything was about being a hard worker. I like to be strategic when I play football, but people who don't understand the game cannot appreciate that. Sven taught me to ****ombine those qualities."
His relationship with the Dutch national team over the years has not been so harmonious. Seedorf has not played more than a few minutes of international football since 2006. A falling out with then coach Marco van Basten prompted him to rule himself out of playing for Holland at Euro 2008 before the tournament even began, and under the current manager, Bert van Marwijk, the situation has not improved.
Raising the issue provokes a weariness in his voice as he reluctantly covers old ground, such as the alleged racial divide in the team of the mid-1990s. "That was 14 years ago," he says, irritably. "It wasn't like that. There wasn't any divide whatsoever. The media made it like that, that's how they function.
"The truth is there was a whole other issue going on. But I can guarantee you that Van der Sar is not black and Bergkamp is not black and yet I was in their rooms during practically all of the tournament. The team had a problem that was beyond anything that came out."
Can he relate to the internal problems of the current England team? Seedorf bristles. "I have experienced internal issues that were internal then, and are still now," he says. "First you have to forgive, then you have to work together again. But it's easily said, not easily done."
Seedorf has not retired from international football, but he will not play a part in the World Cup this summer other than as a television pundit. "I don't have any feeling about it at the moment," he says, "that feeling has probably passed already. I'm still playing for AC Milan. The national team are not calling me. I don't want to talk about it. It [the ****decision] doesn't depend on me."
As the interview draws to a close, Seedorf's physio is still working away. "I think I'll tell him to go easy now," he says, but he is joking. Seedorf's mind is too focused on winning his next Champions League trophy to go easy any time soon.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ampions-league
Seedorf, 33, one of the most decorated players in the modern game, is still as hungry as ever to achieve more. The only player to have won the Champions League with three different clubs – Ajax in 1995, Real Madrid in 1998, and twice with Milan in 2003 and 2007 – he has a career total of 17 club trophies across three European leagues. The Dutchman has played under some of the greatest managers in the game, Fabio Capello, Sven-Goran Eriksson, Carlo Ancelotti, Guus Hiddink, Marcello Lippi, and Louis van Gaal among them, and earned 87 caps for the national side.
That desire stems in part, he says, from his parents – Surinamese immigrants who instilled a strong work ethic in their son as they struggled to forge a new life in the Netherlands. Extended family crammed into the modest family home, "everyone trying to find a better life", he says.
At 14 years old, progressing through the ranks at Ajax, that instinct was strong in Seedorf and he was already insanely competitive. "I was already dreaming about winning the Champions League three times," he says. "My idol, Frank Rijkaard [whom Seedorf also played for during the former Barcelona coach's brief tenure as Holland manager], had won it twice at that stage and so I wanted to win one more than him." He laughs at the memory, but that desire to always have "one more" has not changed in him, even after all his successes.
"When you have ambition then it's never enough to win," he says. "If I was happy with three trophies, then suddenly I had to have four. If I was happy with four then I had to have five. A couple of months [to enjoy it], then when you start again the next season all you can think about it is wanting to do it again."
Which is why Seedorf is so keen to be fit to take his place in midfield for Tuesday's game against Manchester United, a team who hold special memories for him. Milan beat United 3-0 in the second leg of the 2007 semi-final and that night, he says, remains the best moment of his career. Seedorf's performance drew great praise from Wayne Rooney, who told the Italian press that Seedorf was the best footballer he had ever played against.
"We played an incredible game," says Seedorf, smiling at the memory. "Everything about it was fantastic. We began one goal down on aggregate, and it felt like everything was against us." Milan had started that season with a 15-point penalty for their part in the calciopoli scandal. "At the start of that season we could not have imagined winning any trophies. But the team just came together in a way that was really special. We beat Bayern Munich, then Manchester United, and then Liverpool – after losing to them in the [2005] final. It was an incredible explosion of emotions. And it was justice through sport. They wanted to take away our possibility to play in the Champions League when we had done nothing to deserve that, and we won it back."
Seedorf, prodigiously talented, enjoyed success from a young age. At 15 years old his parents turned down an offer from Real Madrid, and aged 16 years and 211 days he made his debut for Ajax, becoming their youngest ever player.
Silverware has been plentiful, but some question whether Seedorf's personality has, at times, caused him undue problems. Highly articulate – he is studying for a masters degree in business – Seedorf is refreshingly expressive and opinionated – but in football terms that means outspoken. Unprompted, he tells a story about being racially abused last year. It is the kind of incident that would give most footballers sleepless nights as they try to decide whether to speak out or not, but Seedorf is totally unfazed. "After the game I wanted to make an official statement," he says, "not to cause a problem but because I wanted to make the point that if players treat each other like this what message do we send to the outside world?"
In the end he felt the Catania player learned a far more personal lesson, as his wife and kids approached Seedorf for autographs and photos after the game. "You can imagine how embarrassing it was for him," he says, taking care to describe the scene. "I didn't say anything, I just turned to him and gave him my hand. The moment was incredible."
Seedorf is deeply spiritual, and does not touch alcohol or coffee. He describes himself as a "volcano" off the pitch, dividing his time between his sports-business company, which manages the Serie C club Monza, and his humanitarian commitments. His charity, Champions for Children, has pioneered an educational playground model for use in developing countries around the world, and his work has brought him into contact with Nelson Mandela, Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Kofi Annan.
For his former club psychologist at Milan, Bruno de Michelis – now at Chelsea – Seedorf is a fascinating case. De Michelis describes him as closer to the personality type of a coach than a footballer. "He talked 10% like a player, 70% like a coach, and 20% like a general manager," he says, "I've never seen such a strong personality."
When Seedorf's biographer approached De Michelis for further insight, the psychologist explained that in football if the manager tells the players to defecate on the pitch, the players would do so without question. "But Seedorf would say: 'Certainly, mister, but what colour should our **************** be?"'
His readiness to speak his mind has not been welcomed by everyone. During Euro 2000 a Dutch public opinion poll showed 81% against his inclusion in the squad, but Seedorf seems genuinely hurt by the suggestion that he is contentious – or unpopular. "Wherever I go the fans are warm to me, even from Inter," he says. "I think I'm outspoken, but I think people respect me for that. Who does not talk cannot be judged. Who does not shoot the penalty cannot miss."
Whatever his own view, over the years stories have circulated about infamous run-ins with managers and players. Famously Fabio Capello, then manager of Real Madrid, was alleged to have thrown his jacket at Seedorf because the player was talking tactics at half-time, shouting: "If you know it all so well, you be the coach!"
Seedorf plays down the story as, "a discussion about nothing", but his recollections of the England manager are revealing. "When you talk about me and Capello, you talk about two personalities. If I have an opinion and I don't agree with you that's it, and he was the same. Capello used the guys with strong personalities – I remember he did it with [striker] Predrag Mijatovic as well – he motivated the team by creating a discussion with somebody, by looking for conflicts. And when he did, the team would go out and kick butt."
He recalls his own version of the jacket-throwing incident – minus the jacket but with a good deal of yelling. "One time we were losing 1-0 to Atlético Madrid," he says, "playing with 10 men, and we came in the dressing room and began talking about the game. Capello was on the other side of the room and he asked what we were talking about, but he didn't listen to the answer he just started yelling. So I yelled back. That was a hot moment. But he wanted to make a statement and it worked: the team went out and won 4-1 and I scored.
"And then just before you go out to play he will clap you on the back. That's his thing, it's over, right there. After the game I remember I walked to my car, and he stopped his car beside me, wound his window down, and shook my hand. That's Capello."
Seedorf remembers the Italian coach fondly, and there is genuine affection in his voice as he describes being taken under his wing. "I was just 19 when he took me to Real Madrid. He asked me personally to go with him, and that carried a lot of importance. He was always very clear and very tough, but also very caring. He was one of the most ****important coaches in my career."
Well accustomed to Capello's autocratic style, Seedorf says he is not at all surprised by the coach's decision to strip John Terry of the England captaincy. "Capello couldn't do anything other than what he did. You have to send out the right message, I don't think you can get away with those things – like Thierry Henry and his handball, that was a big mistake that they did not punish him.
"Footballers are role models. At the One Young World summit [in London] last week I spoke about the responsibility we have as sportsmen in the public eye. Yes it is a shame that the story came out, but paparazzi and tabloids are just part of society and you as a sports celebrity should be aware of the risk.
"But Terry has been a great captain for Chelsea and England, and I hope he will be an even better captain in the future. Everybody makes mistakes."
Seedorf still keeps in touch with Capello, but it is England's first foreign manager with whom he has the closest bond. A year spent at Sampdoria, in the care of Sven-Goran Eriksson, had the biggest impression on his career.
"Eriksson was like a father to me," he says. "He told me about life, he helped me to understand what was needed to survive outside Holland. It went beyond football, it was the culture, the mentality of the Italian players. If you don't understand that, you can become frustrated.
"There were many problems. I came from a country where people expressed their opinions. The mentality in Italy is to shut up and run. That's it in a nutshell. When things go bad don't discuss it, just run harder. In Holland it's: 'Let's sit down and discuss things until we understand what the problem is.'"
Seedorf paints an intimate picture as he describes Eriksson using allegory to explain the Mediterranean football culture that was so alien to his young charge. "He said it was like people building a house. People can relate better to the labourers working on the house than to the architect who actually created it. In Italy everything was about being a hard worker. I like to be strategic when I play football, but people who don't understand the game cannot appreciate that. Sven taught me to ****ombine those qualities."
His relationship with the Dutch national team over the years has not been so harmonious. Seedorf has not played more than a few minutes of international football since 2006. A falling out with then coach Marco van Basten prompted him to rule himself out of playing for Holland at Euro 2008 before the tournament even began, and under the current manager, Bert van Marwijk, the situation has not improved.
Raising the issue provokes a weariness in his voice as he reluctantly covers old ground, such as the alleged racial divide in the team of the mid-1990s. "That was 14 years ago," he says, irritably. "It wasn't like that. There wasn't any divide whatsoever. The media made it like that, that's how they function.
"The truth is there was a whole other issue going on. But I can guarantee you that Van der Sar is not black and Bergkamp is not black and yet I was in their rooms during practically all of the tournament. The team had a problem that was beyond anything that came out."
Can he relate to the internal problems of the current England team? Seedorf bristles. "I have experienced internal issues that were internal then, and are still now," he says. "First you have to forgive, then you have to work together again. But it's easily said, not easily done."
Seedorf has not retired from international football, but he will not play a part in the World Cup this summer other than as a television pundit. "I don't have any feeling about it at the moment," he says, "that feeling has probably passed already. I'm still playing for AC Milan. The national team are not calling me. I don't want to talk about it. It [the ****decision] doesn't depend on me."
As the interview draws to a close, Seedorf's physio is still working away. "I think I'll tell him to go easy now," he says, but he is joking. Seedorf's mind is too focused on winning his next Champions League trophy to go easy any time soon.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ampions-league
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